In this episode, Michelle Cassandra Johnson shares an intimate look at her journey with self-worth and the powerful impact that her mother had by teaching her that she was more than enough. Michelle’s mother gave an invaluable gift by nurturing her to be intentional with risks, teaching her to be ok with being imperfect, and to trust her voice and intuition. Nicole and Michelle talk about what it could look like to listen to your intuition when you’re unsure of your purpose, and the significance of signs and symbols in everyday life.
Michelle C. Johnson is an author, spiritual teacher, social justice activist, intuitive healer, and Dismantling Racism educator. She approaches her life and work from a place of knowing we are, can, and must heal individually and collectively. As a dismantling racism educator, she has worked with large corporations, non-profits, and community groups, including the ACLU-WA, Duke University, Google, This American Life, Yoga Alliance, Lululemon, and many others.
Her newest book, “We Heal Together: Rituals and Practice for Building Community and Connection,” published by Shambhala Publications, explores the deep knowing and truth that we are interconnected; we belong to one another. “We Heal Together” offers rituals and practices meant to dream us into a new way of being to benefit the highest and fullest good. Michelle teaches workshops and immersions in organizations, and spiritual, yoga, and community spaces nationwide.
Michelle moves and leads from the heart, and healing and wholeness are central to how Michelle approaches all she does in the world.
“She [my mother] also encouraged me to try things, to take risks, not to be frivolous and haphazard, but intentional with risks that I might take. And I feel like that has everything to do with trusting my intuition and trusting my voice.”
“Dominant cultural norms condition many of us to be perfect, and she [my mother] never gave me that message. She gave the message that I was imperfect but not in the way that made me feel like I wasn’t enough”
“Knowing when I was 15 and 22 that ‘I’m here on purpose,’ even if I didn’t know what it was about overrode the messages I was receiving from the dominant culture that I wasn’t enough.”
“I want to use my voice. I want to change myself. I want to change the world.”
“I knew that I wasn’t here alone. I understood that signs and symbols were coming from different places. I recognized that some of these symbols were for me.”
“For many years, my job as a therapist was to listen. Not only to what people were saying but also to what they weren’t naming and to the silences. I watched body language and listened to that in a way that I feel is connected to intuition. “
“Sometimes you have to go on a journey, and you don’t know why.”
“We Heal Together is a testament to remembering that we are meant to be in community with one another and especially on the path of healing the planet, to survive and thrive. We want future generations to have a place that is whole, healthy, and thriving.”
“We actually need to pause and consider what we’ve lost, what we’re recovering from, and through that, how we actually heal with one another as we try to recover so that we do not replicate the patterns that lead to things like a global pandemic and a health crisis.”
“I do feel like we need to heal because many of us have been taught that we’re not whole and we’re broken.”
NICOLE
Are you a high-achieving woman who struggles to know what your purpose is and how to find it? I am so honored to welcome Michelle Cassandra Johnson to the School of Self Worth. Michelle is an activist, an author, a yoga teacher, a dismantling racism trainer, intuitive healer and changemaker. Her newest book, “We Heal Together,” is a hopeful, wise and practical guide to help us move into spaces of individual and collective healing, community and relationship building, and it is available now.
In this episode, Michelle shares the journey of following her intuition to live for her purpose. If you’re a high-achieving woman struggling with connecting to yourself and what is next for you in your life, this episode is for you.
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Hi everyone! I’m so happy to be here today with Michelle Johnson, a spiritual teacher, activist, and author who is coming out with a new book very soon. I’m really excited to be in conversation because for me, the intention behind this podcast is to hear the stories of other women, especially women who you might perceive as really successful or making a big mark in the world, which is definitely what Michelle is doing with her work. But also, to talk about the journey to do that, to actually be in the world making a mark and having your voice out there in the world. So, Michelle, first of all, welcome to the School of Self-Worth.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Thank you so much for inviting me to be here.
NICOLE
I’m so glad you’re here and I love being in conversation with women where I can just see the journey. It might seem like, ‘Oh, she’s got her third book coming out and she’s got another book in the works. She’s just crushing it. She’s just doing all these things in the world.’ And I would love to, in that context, say that it is never as simple as it might appear on the surface. Especially when you’re sharing things in the world.
If you could even just start to give people a sense of where your own journey with your worthiness and your value started for you. I know that’s a really open question, but I’d love to hear where you go when you think about it.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Well, I just spoke with my mother earlier today. Her name is Clara and she’s going to turn 80 on April 1st. We are very close. She’s dear to me and so the first place I went in my mind and heart when you asked this question about my journey and worth, and even just understanding who I am, a sense of self, I go to my mother. Because my mother taught me that I was enough, and she taught me to be of service. She also encouraged me to try things, to take risks, not to be frivolous and haphazard, but intentional with risks that I might take. And I feel like that has everything to do with trusting my intuition and trusting my voice. And also, being humble and willing to learn and be led as I shift and change and put my work out into the world. So, I feel like she taught me that and it feels like such a gift because I am in relationships with many people who have been conditioned to be perfectionists. And I also feel like in so many ways dominant cultural norms condition many of us to be perfect. And she never gave me that message. She kind of gave the message that I was imperfect but not in the way that made me feel like I wasn’t enough but like ‘Do the best you can’ or ‘You did the best that you could.’ Right? Try again if this doesn’t work.’ See if you like this, try it on.
I just feel like that’s an invaluable gift that many of my friends and colleagues perhaps did not learn from their parents or caregivers. And certainly, as I just named, these messages about risk-taking and it being okay to be imperfect are not the messages we receive from dominant culture. So that’s where I go first, to my mom. And I also feel like, you know, from that place of learning from my mother and watching her model what it means to be out in the world and be of service and be generous, that really is infused in most of the work that I do in the world, including the books and through bodies of work that I’ve put time and energy into.
I mentioned a moment ago my intuition and I feel like learning to trust myself has been a process. And now I trust that I’m being led by intuition, by ancestors so much so that I tend not to question messages I might receive from ancestors about what to do next. Or like this book, coming out in April, “We Heal Together,” began with a message from my ancestors about creating a space for healing to talk about grief and liberation, and I couldn’t figure out why. But I trust the messages I get now, and I think the foundation of that is my mother teaching me to trust my voice and try things and not believe I’m a failure if something doesn’t go well. And it feels comforting to be in a place in my life where I can trust that I’m being led and also listen to what messages might be coming to me. The messages I’m receiving. So that’s a little bit about that, that’s the start of the answer to your question.
NICOLE
Thank you, Michelle. Well, I love so many things that you said. First, what a gift to have a mother who knows how to walk that very beautiful balance of support while also not requiring you to be perfect. Which I love and I’d love to actually start there. I want to talk about intuition but I’m going to put that for the second piece. With your mom, I’m curious then. So, I love that that message was really reinforced for you at home because I would say that for a lot of people that’s not the case. And when you are facing a dominant culture that’s saying otherwise, like when you were a kid or even as you got older, and I think especially where it’s challenging, especially for women, is your late teen years and your 20s. Because when I think about that time in my life, it was all about ‘Get it right? Figure out your career.’ Like I think back to college days and when people all want to know what your major is and your career and I’m like ‘How could you possibly at 21 or 22 have any idea of what you really want to do for the rest of your life?’ I think about that messaging though we all get. And so, I’m curious for you, how you balanced that coming from a home that was really supportive and allowed you to experiment and be yourself, and then this outer world which is not saying that at all.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
I love this question because it’s interesting to me. I wasn’t always clear about my purpose if that makes sense. Like, I feel like I always did well in school but was like a hot mess in relationships with my friends or like risk-taking as a teenager. And then going to college and feeling lost in so many ways but feeling clear about wanting to graduate college and wanting to go to graduate school. And I don’t know, maybe that came from my mother too or just how I came into this incarnation of self. I’m not sure, or both or many things. But I feel like as I’m reflecting on your question, I think there was an understanding, if not clarity, but an understanding that I was here on purpose. Like I’m here on purpose, here to do something. And I think I understood that I was here to be of service. It just wasn’t channeled when I was in high school. I didn’t know what to do with it. But I felt really sensitive about the world, and I felt sensitive about my friends, and I felt sensitive about myself and my experience in growing up in predominantly white spaces. For example, like I also identify as an empath. So, I think I was quite sensitive as a child and teenager and then as I got into college and in particular in graduate school, I went to graduate school for social work right after college and I feel like that’s when clarity started to come to me around how I would be of service to others and around how I would use my voice.
I feel like knowing when I was 15 and 22 that ‘I’m here on purpose,’ even if I didn’t know what it was about, I feel like that in so many ways at times overrode the messages I was receiving from the dominant culture, that I wasn’t enough. Coupled with my mother instilling in me, ‘You are enough as you are,’ I think it was like I knew I had a purpose. My mother let me know that and my grandmother let me know that for sure. Always. Let’s say the maternal line definitely instilled that in me and I kind of knew the messages I was receiving from dominant culture were not actually true. Even though I was internalizing and still do negative messages about what it means, for example, to be black in a white supremacist culture. I was not saying I was transcending that in any way, and I do think certain negative things like an eating disorder manifested from the dominant cultural norms I was taking in. And that was a long battle to heal from that, even as I understood I had purpose. So, it’s not like I had it all figured out, but I do think that sort of internal compass and knowing ‘I have a purpose, I wanted to be of service. I want to use my voice. I want to change myself. I want to change the world.’ Not in an overly ambitious way, but like ‘I want to move people.’ I think I understood that and then I just had to figure out how, and that I would say after graduate school and social work, began to clarify itself more and more and now it feels like I’m just refining that over and over. How to be of service. So that’s what I think about it. I love the question because I haven’t thought about it before in that way. I appreciate you asking.
NICOLE
I love what you’re sharing because really what you’re saying is that you were driven by something that I experience with my own clients who really struggle with what their purpose is and what that looks like. But it sounds like to me that you actually had that as a guiding force: ‘I am of service. I am of purpose.’ And I don’t know exactly what the material of that is, like am I going to be a social worker, a coach, or a writer? All of those pieces, right? But you knew that was the thing driving the direction you were going. Does that feel like an accurate assessment?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
That’s right, it does for sure.
NICOLE
Well, it’s lovely because I feel like if more of us did that, it would be great. I didn’t find that pathway myself until my 30s. But if I knew that purpose was something driving me, I would love that as a way of being. My purpose drives me forth and self-worth goes with it. You don’t have to figure out your self-worth. You can just say, ‘My purpose is that I am worthy, and I am here.’ So now let me go do that.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
What you’re saying made me think about when I shared that I had an eating disorder. I feel like that was a manifestation of dominant cultural norms and what I’d internalized. I remember the doctor saying, ‘You will not live if you keep starving yourself.’ Immediately, I thought, ‘I don’t want to die. That’s not what I’m trying to do. That’s not why I’m here.’ I think I was 18 or 19 when the doctor said that to me. I will never forget it because it was so clear that wasn’t the point of this. That’s not what I wanted to do. I was struggling and suffering. I didn’t know what to do with these emotions. I was in a culture that said I wasn’t good enough and isolated at college. But it was so clear that I didn’t want to vanish. That’s not why I was here. So, it just came to me while thinking about that memory and how much it drove me, knowing there was a purpose to this. I didn’t understand it at 18 or 19, but it was so clear. Now that I’m 47 and a half, it’s interesting to reflect on those points where I actually wanted to go this way because what I was doing was deterring me from my purpose and path. That was a strong knowing, I guess.
NICOLE
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Well, I’m curious to go back to intuition then – could you talk a little bit about how you developed it or even understood what it was, and then how you started to use it to actually follow service and purpose.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
As a child, I remember noticing things from the natural world. For example, I found and still do find four-leaf clovers all the time. I found hearts in the natural world or like a glitter heart on the ground as I’m walking my dog. I know it’s a message from the universe for me. That’s been a theme since I was little and many other symbols and signs. I feel like this is connected to intuition because I knew that I wasn’t here alone. I understood that signs and symbols were coming from different places. Even though I may have been making meaning, I recognized that some of these symbols were for me. So I knew something else was going on other than what I was thinking in my mind. I was in conversation with ancestors, the universe, and the natural world. I knew that in some form, and I actually think many children understand that even if they can’t articulate it. I mentioned earlier that I was also quite a sensitive child and observant. I still am constantly tracking what is going on to understand what my observations meant for me. I think that’s how I started to understand when I was in communication and conversation with something bigger than me.
There was a deeper knowing inside of me. I think I knew that, although at age 7 I wouldn’t have articulated it the way I am now. I was so observant and interested in how people connected and made decisions and where there was disconnection. I was awake in a way that probably set me up to be connected to intuition and to learn to trust my inner knowing. From being a young child throughout my teenage years, I wasn’t paying as much attention to my intuition because I was trying to figure out who I was. Even into college and graduate school when I was 21, I was still trying to figure out who I was. But after I graduated, it was a pivotal moment for me because I became a social worker. In relationships with others and supporting people to trust themselves and remove narratives that were in the way of their own intuition and inner knowing, it probably strengthened my own inner knowing. Listening is such a big part of intuition.
For many years, my job as a therapist was to listen. Not only to what people were saying but also to what they weren’t naming and to the silences. I watched body language and listened to that in a way that I feel is connected to intuition. Then I tried to figure out how to respond in a way that was helpful or might provide some transformation or release of a narrative. In the last seven or eight years, my work with my intuition and inner knowing has deepened. I came to yoga about fifteen years ago and it was introduced to me before that. So it’s been about two decades since I began practicing yoga consistently and did teacher training in 2009. Yoga, which I regard as a spiritual path and practice, talks about our inner knowing, intuition, true self, and universal truth. The path of yoga really strengthened this idea and reality that there is an inner knowing that is often covered up by narratives, experiences, fears, ancestral traumas, and traumas we’ve experienced in this lifetime. Yoga and many spiritual paths are about uncovering and revealing. I credit my practice and the path of yoga for reinforcing what I think I knew as a child: we are connected in this way and I’m receiving this information and there is a deeper knowing.
I feel like the path of yoga has been the strongest influence on how I think about intuition and inner knowing. It has allowed me to lean into my intuition and guide me. I get quiet enough to listen to what my intuition, ancestors, or the universe might want to communicate with me in relation to my intuition.
NICOLE
This leads me to a two-part question. I love what you’re sharing about intuition and uncovering that spiritual path. I was also a yoga teacher for more than a decade and it led me down that awakening pathway. But once you’re awake, what’s next? That’s a question on its own. But first, I’m curious about how seeing signs like the glitter heart relates to being an adult and tuning into intuition. How do we start to sense intuition as adults?
The second piece is that for most people, the hardest part of intuition is hearing and sensing it. The biggest struggle is often following it because it’s always leading you down pathways you’ve never done before, typically to do things that are a little bit terrifying and outside your comfort zone. So I’m curious to hear how you see it for adults now: following intuition and actually hearing it. And then, what do you do to help yourself adhere to it? What keeps you on the pathway of saying ‘Okay, yes’, when you hear the thing to do and then go do it?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
I’m in constant communication with the natural world and there are signs and symbols. It’s so mysterious to me and it also makes me chuckle half the time. I know I’m not alone in this and it means I’m not alone in living into my purpose. I’m not doing it on my own and there’s reinforcement and comfort in that for me. It allows me to listen to my intuition more deeply and take action from it. It’s not just about me and I’m not doing it on my own. That’s why seeing a glitter heart two weeks ago made me laugh. I thought, ‘Of course I’m loved and held.’ How funny that this is here. Who else saw this as a sign and what did it mean to them? That’s where I go with the mystery and curiosity of it. I love that because I understand that there are things unfolding that I can’t see, and this relates to intuition.
There are things that I don’t yet understand or know and that I’m not in control of. While that can feel uncomfortable at times, I’m kind of in a place in my life where I love it. Tragedy happens and that’s not in my control. Due to yoga, ancestral practices, and spiritual and shamanic practices, I understand that death is part of life and we’re always in this cycle. While I don’t want my beloveds to transition or leave this realm, it’s going to happen. I feel like I’ve done some work around understanding that I don’t get to control that. This allows me to be in the mystery of it and listen more clearly to my intuition and the signs coming to me. This may manifest differently for different people, but for me, there’s a letting go, because I’m not thinking my way into doing things. I’m listening to how spirit or my ancestors want me to be of service and trying to follow that path.
Based on your two-part question, in 2017 I moved to North Carolina. Then I made a decision to move across the country to Portland, Oregon. I didn’t really understand why I was going there. I got a job and went, but my life was completely disrupted by losing my father and grandmother. What made me take the risk was this knowing that I needed to change and move all the way across the country. But I didn’t know what was going to happen when I got there. Those things happened and my first book came out that year, which opened up some things. The grief process and being in a different place without really knowing people while grieving was difficult. My feet hadn’t landed on the ground there when my father transitioned. There was disruption happening, but I understood that I was supposed to be in that place right now. That came from my intuition. It’s not always great. Sometimes where my intuition leads me can be disruptive and I don’t understand why it’s taking me there. In my experience, I don’t stay in that place of disruption. It was a year of intense grieving and there’s still grief now, but it didn’t disrupt me so much that I stopped trusting my decision to move there. A year after being there, I knew I had to go back to North Carolina.
I packed up my things and my dog and drove myself back across the country because my intuition said I no longer needed to be there. My grandmother had something to do with it as well. As she was transitioning, I knew I needed to come home. She was communicating that to me without words and I listened to and trusted that message. So I came back home. I just want to balance it with the fact that it’s not always like glitter hearts. Sometimes you have to go on a journey, and you don’t know why. In reflecting on that year in Portland, I’m grateful for the process and experience and that I didn’t resist it. I’m not sure I would be where I am now if I had.
I don’t want it to sound like it’s just glitter hearts. I want to balance it and say that sometimes my intuition has led me down pathways or on journeys that have felt deeply disruptive and broken me apart. In reflecting on those times, I can now say that I’m grateful for them because I’m not sure I would be where I am now if I hadn’t been through those experiences of listening to my intuition. For example, I’m not sure I would have written a book about grief or healing together in community if I hadn’t been through those experiences. My intuition has led me to both beautiful and lovely places and places where there’s going to be disruption and transformation for me. It’s so deep that it makes me evolve in ways I didn’t know were going to happen.
NICOLE
That’s super beautiful. I think sometimes that our intuition is going to give us an answer, but it often doesn’t. It gives us more questions or tells us that our journey is continuing and to just keep going. Eventually, at some point, we get to the other side of it, but we don’t know how long that will take.
I’m curious. So would you tell us a little bit then about your journey to your current book, and how did your intuition guide you – like a little bit more about how this one came together for you?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
The book is called ‘We Heal Together: Rituals and Practices for Building Connection and Community.’ It initially came from a message I received while in meditation. I’ll mention that meditation is one of the ways I connect to my intuition. I meditate every morning and have a prayer practice, use divination tools, and journal. These are practices that might help others connect to their intuition. I received a message from what I believe was my ancestors or spirit or both that said, ‘You’ll need to hold a place for grief and healing focused on grief and liberation.’ I couldn’t figure out why. A few months after receiving that message, it was nagging me. What did it mean and why were we going to need it? This was pre-2020 when I actually received that message. It was in 2019.
A few other things happened along the way. One of which is that my second book, ‘Finding Refuge,’ which is about grief, came out. It feels connected to ‘We Heal Together.’ These book projects feel like cousins. I wrote this book about grief in the hopes of elevating a conversation about how we process what we are grieving collectively. It’s to help people with their individual grief and to have a practice to support us. It’s also about what we’ve lost collectively and how we talk about it and move through it. How do we acknowledge what we’re losing because of systems that cause harm and patterns that are toxic? I had the message in meditation and ‘Finding Refuge’ came out, which includes many stories about grief, my own and the collective. In June of 2020, this message turned into a gathering for people.
Between receiving the message and ‘Finding Refuge’ coming out, I invited friends to join me in leading a journey or meditation for me, so I could get more information about grief and liberation and why I would need to hold this space. They did, and I had a vision of a gathering. Of course, in June 2020, many people were not gathering in person because of COVID-19. So this ended up being an online gathering with people. It was like, ‘Oh, I’m holding this space because my people knew to give me the message to do this and that we would need it now.’ Even though when I received the message, I had no idea a global pandemic was going to happen. But there was some knowing and transmission. From that offering and ‘Finding Refuge,’ I knew that we were always meant to heal in community with one another. If most of us trace back our lineages, we were in community and not living in isolation. Some people have to go way back, and some do not. It depends on your culture, where you’re from, and your orientation to ritual, practice, and community. I grew up in the US and much of the messaging I received from dominant culture is that we’re isolated and heal on our own, if we prioritize healing at all. We Heal Together is a testament to remembering that we are meant to be in community with one another and especially on the path of healing the planet, to survive and thrive.
We want future generations to have a place that is whole, healthy, and thriving. That’s a little about how my intuition led me to write this book. The other piece of it is that I’ve sat in a circle with many people, engaged in rituals and practices focused on our healing and witnessing one another. We focus on vulnerability and sharing from the heart, on how we come into community, and on engaging with the elements and that which is bigger than us. So, my experience over the last decade in circle with people, and even before that but more intentionally focused on ritual, led to this book as well.
NICOLE
Beautiful. Thank you for that. The book sounds incredible. One of the things I’m curious about as you were speaking is healing together in community and really seeing that. I feel like sometimes what’s been happening with the pandemic is like everyone’s just kind of charging ahead and doing things the way they used to. I have experienced it and was seeing this with my teachers this year around how there was so much death, literal death, but also the death of ideas, identity, and who you are. There was just so much death during the pandemic. But now we’re in a stage of rebirth. As you and I are recording this, it is literally the spring equinox. Whenever people hear this, it will be later, but there is this rebirth energetically. I’m curious where that healing comes in for you. I don’t know where I’m going with this question, but there’s a sensing for me of life and birth from that healing. I’m curious what you’re seeing now as you’re putting this book out at this time.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Well, speaking of intuition, I trust that it’s coming out, because it needs to come out now. I feel that way about ‘Finding Refuge,’ my second book about collective grief. It came out when it needed to come out, on time, and I feel the same way about ‘We Heal Together.’ I’m also allowing it to do what it’s going to do because I don’t control it once it’s out. It is its own thing. It came through me and it’s its own thing. I’m also seeing what you are naming about people charging ahead and skipping the recovery process that we actually need to go through given what we have been through. There are many pandemics, but one we have all been through is COVID-19. There is this tendency and inclination to move past instead of moving through because it’s uncomfortable to be in recovery. I think that we need to pause and consider what we’ve lost, what we’re recovering from, and through that how we actually heal with one another as we try to recover, so we do not replicate the same patterns that lead to things like a global pandemic and a health crisis.
COVID-19 raised consciousness about so much. It uncovered and illuminated so much about care, how we respond to crisis, the lack of mutual care for one another coupled with climate chaos and what we are doing to the planet. These things and many more pandemics have revealed so much. In the rebirthing, what I will say is what you named earlier: death, life, birth, and rebirth are constantly happening. That’s the thing that I understand is true.
NICOLE
Thank you for sharing that, Michelle. I have this visual when you were talking. One of my teachers and I talk about this all the time: how in heartbreak, for your heart to grow bigger, it actually has to crack open and then get bigger. When you were talking about systems crumbling, to me it’s like the same thing. Things have to break open, and so much broke open over the last three years. From there is where more can grow and come together. I love what you’re sharing about how it’s really through community and collective work together that we can come up. It’s not any one individual. I actually really believe that we have to heal ourselves to heal the whole and we can heal ourselves in the whole too. That’s what I’m hearing from you and your book.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Right. While I might be meditating on my own in front of my altar in the morning, I’m not alone in that. I write about this in ‘We Heal Together’ and in some other work and speak about it. I’m sitting in front of an ancestor altar or pulling in divination tools that support me. I have things on my altar that are meaningful to me and inspire different feelings, transitions, hopes, and represent different hopes and dreams. I’m aware that my mother’s heartbeat is contained within mine. It’s like my grandmother’s. I was a social worker for a long time and the model of mental health is that you are alone in healing on your own and here are the tools. Yet that feels like such a departure from how it actually works and what people need. It feels false to me. We’re calling in all these different resources including community, which may be people, or for me has often been the natural world or spirit or my practice. My spiritual practice which I’m trying to commit to living.
It just feels like a representation and understanding to believe that we are healing on our own even if we’re practicing something on our own for healing. Even if my healing looks different than someone else’s, I do feel like we need to heal because many of us have been taught that we’re not whole and we’re broken. These messages come in different forms and so that feels like a throughline for us all which then speaks to how we commune together to come into healing.
NICOLE
So beautifully said, Michelle. Well, everyone should definitely go out and buy her book because it sounds like an incredible resource for all of us, especially considering that I don’t feel like anybody came through the last three years without something. To really read the book and connect into that. I’m wondering what other ways people can find out more about you?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Thank you. My website, Michelle C Johnson, is the best way to find out what I’m up to and learn about my books and offerings. It’s updated all the time with new events. I teach workshops around the country based on my books and the work I’ve been doing for a long time, a lot of it at the intersection of social justice and yoga and a lot of it connected to grief, healing, and rituals. All of that is there. I’m also on Instagram. My handle is @skillinaction and many things are there about my life and who I am, but also events that might be coming up or musings that I have. Those are the best ways to stay in contact with me and see what I’m up to. On the website, there’s a way to sign up for my newsletter which I send out twice a month. It includes events and different thoughts I’m having at the time and stirrings that are coming up for me. Those are some ways people can stay in touch with me.
NICOLE TSONG
Awesome! Well, I almost forgot one of the fun things we do here – it’s a little fun question speed round at the end. So, if you’re up for that, do you want to do it? Okay, very simple. What was the last thing you watched on television?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Oh my gosh, this is so funny. It makes me laugh. ‘Grey’s Anatomy’ because I didn’t watch it when it first came out. Normally I watch terrible TV and reality TV that isn’t feeding my brain at all. I feel a little better about myself now that I’m watching ‘Grey’s Anatomy.’ I love medical dramas and it’s so good, and there are so many seasons. I think I watched an episode yesterday in the airport when I was waiting to fly back to North Carolina from Boston.
NICOLE
You’re going to have many, many episodes to watch ahead if you’re just getting started.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
I know, I’m SO excited. So excited.
NICOLE
Michelle, what’s on your nightstand?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
I just looked at it. I have a piece of labradorite on my nightstand. I have some jewelry, mala beads, and bracelets. I have some mugwort on my nightstand, which I take every night for lucid dreaming. There’s probably some other things too. There’s a book about rituals on my nightstand right now.
NICOLE
Cool, and then when was the last time you tried something new, and what was it?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
What was it? It’s not new, but it felt new. Yesterday I was co-leading a retreat at Kripalu and at the end, we were doing a collective practice moving through it. Someone started singing in the circle, and I will sing in circles with people but usually, I’m pretty quiet. I wasn’t quiet when I sang. I was really singing loud enough so I could hear myself, and I imagine other people could hear me. I mention this because I’m in a place where a shaman I’m working with has recommended more singing and voice sacred work and throat chakra work, specifically singing and dancing. That happened and I noticed it. I mean, I’ve sung before, but it felt new like I was doing something different in community with others so they could hear me when I sing.
NICOLE
I love that, singing out loud, awesome. Okay, last one, what are the top 3 most used emojis on your phone?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Definitely a honeybee because I’m a beekeeper. A heart, either purple or red heart. And then there’s a symbol that makes me think of magic. It’s like a star but it’s not one star. There are four different stars. I don’t know what it’s called, but stars.
NICOLE
So, is there something you could leave people who want to develop their self-worth and their intuition? To give them one tool to work on for themselves. What would you share with them?
MICHELLE JOHNSON
I would say a practice around listening to themselves more. The world is noisy and there are many messages. Either journaling or getting quiet enough for 5 minutes a day to even notice what’s in the way of listening. That’s where I would start: getting quiet enough to listen to what one’s intuition might want to communicate. This could be through journaling or some sort of contemplative or reflective practice. That’s what I would suggest, to block out the noise that creates obstacles for us as we think about listening to our intuition and being led by it.
NICOLE
Well, Michelle, you shared so much wisdom with us today. I just love being in your presence. Thank you so much for sharing everything.
Everyone, make sure you go buy a copy of her book. We’ll list all the links in the show notes as well. I’m really honored that you took the space and time to be here with us today.
MICHELLE JOHNSON
Thank you so much for your work and thank you for inviting me to be a guest on your podcast.
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