Do you ever feel like there must be more to life than just chasing your next achievement? Do you feel as though your constant striving for self-improvement leaves you feeling disconnected and lonely?
In this episode, Nicole and Adele Wang take a deep dive into the addiction of trying to fix yourself and the pressures faced by high achievers.
Through personal stories and experiences, Adele unveils the truth behind what personal growth actually equates to. And why the constant need to control and understand the reasons behind life situations hinders true growth and being.
Adele speaks openly and honestly as she shares her personal experiences of finding true embodiment, of understanding her own sensuality and being more alive.
Adele is a premier mentor for professionals struggling with stress and craving lives of more purpose, meaning and connection. As a spiritual teacher and speaker on consciousness, she has helped hundreds of leaders around the world reduce anxiety and attract more fulfilling careers and relationships. She is the only wisdom teacher who combines the power of storytelling with mindset, embodiment and cutting-edge spiritual practices to help people create success at a time when there’s more change and uncertainty than ever. She is the host of the “All Things Human” podcast and a frequent speaker on consciousness, business psychology and personal development. For more information, visit www.adelewang.com.
“I believe we need more community. I think people are off by themselves, reading self-help books, trying to figure themselves out, but they’re fundamentally lonely because we were never wired to live so isolated.”
“Sensuality is a way to feel more alive. And again, that’s the key right now. Everybody’s chasing, ‘How do I be happier?’ Which is running away from sadness, and the minute you do that, you split the world into two. There are good feelings and there are bad feelings. I’m like, well, hell, they’re just feelings. It’s like colors, we need the full gamut. When you are more sensually awake, you will feel more of everything. That includes intimacy, that includes nervousness or whatever because all that’s been suppressed.”
“Feeling alive and tapping into your natural sensuality, one of the things that is priceless, that will help you in everything: dating, social media, building the business, anything that’s scary; the sensual piece will help you feel safer.”
There’s nothing really to work on except getting to know and accept yourself. That is the foundational most useful information. That’s all you need to know.”
“The difference is, for example, I’m focusing on my hand. Oh, there’s my hand. But I can also be inside my hand. And then I notice the nerves, the pulse. It’s that shift, because usually we are very focus-oriented when we look at something, but we’re not in it. So being in it, is a sensual experience.”
“But what I find happens a lot of times is people are so caught up with trying to tell people, ‘Don’t think that way. Think this way’. It can make people feel a little bit wonky; you sort of have to discover it for yourself.”
“And the easiest thing I have found to just speed up this whole process is to rediscover your natural sensuality. Again, in my experience, that has been the fastest way to get people out of their heads. There’s that part of it, but it’s also when people are stuck in their heads, they don’t notice the color of the sky. They don’t notice colors, tastes, sound, music, because they’re somewhere else. So how do I be? Turn on your ability to feel alive, and that’s your sensuality. If you don’t have sensuality, it’s hard to feel alive.”
NICOLE
Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and work/life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.
Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.
Hello, friends. Welcome back to the School of Self-Worth. Today I am really excited to talk about a topic that is like the insidious underbelly of high achievers: the addiction to trying to fix yourself. This is one that we don’t talk about so much, but I have to say I have personally experienced this as well. Our guest today is Adele Wong, and she is a mentor for professionals struggling with stress and craving a life of purpose, meaning, and connection. She’s also the host of the All Things Human podcast, and she and I dig into what’s driving that addiction and what is actually possible for high achievers. When you uncover the truth, get ready for such a powerful conversation. And if you’re a high achieving career woman who wants to uncover the number one blind spot preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment just for you. DM me quiz @ Nicole on Instagram.
All right, let’s do it. Let’s get into this impactful conversation. Well, hello Adele! I’m so glad to have you here on the podcast today.
ADELE WANG
So happy to be here.
NICOLE
It’s so nice to meet you. I got to know Adele through her social media presence and through her TikTok where she just has all these really great conversations around self-mastery and all of those pieces. What I’d love to start off with now in the context of self-worth, is to talk about your own journey. I’d love to actually hear a little bit about it in the journey of social media, but let’s start a little bit earlier. In terms of your own, how did you start to become and live into a place in your life where you started to put your face out and your thoughts onto social media?
ADELE WANG
Well, I’ll say I never imagined I’d be doing this. When you think of someone very socially awkward, someone who had trouble relating to people, always a little bit nervous, that was me growing up. So it wasn’t like I came into this world with any sort of awareness. I was behind the curve, really. And I was always trying to figure things out. I was raised in a family that if there’s a problem, whether it’s academic or how to get something done around the house or even your own weirdness, while you fix it, you improve yourself.
I said, okay, I’m not feeling that great about myself. I’m having trouble connecting to people. I’m lonely all the time in a crowd. Let me go fix myself. And at that time, my family has an academic background, and the feeling was always to pursue something intellectually challenging, rigorous, whether it’s medicine or something like that. And so I went down that path. It never occurred to me whether I wanted to or not. It was just sort of prescribed for me. But what I noticed was how unhappy I was. No matter what my major was, where I was, who I was around, I had the same feeling of disconnection around humans.
So I thought I’d fix that. I really absorbed myself in a lot of self-help books. I became consumed with psychology, and I could tell you everything about the theories. First of all, I love that stuff just from an intellectual body of work. I am interested in it. But of course, applying it to myself was interesting. It was a double thing. You’re learning about something, but you’re also learning about yourself through that.
I knew that I was really struggling with depression, and at that time, people said, well, if therapy is not working and you’re stuck in your head about all your problems, you need to awaken spiritually. I said, well, what’s that? So I absorbed another bunch of things like karma and all this stuff. And that’s when the same things that got me in trouble with self-help and growth, got me in the same conundrum when it came to spiritual work, because it’s just another arena where you apply yourself. And it’s really no different when people throw themselves into maybe formalized religion. You’re sort of trying to fix yourself through a method or what people say.
So I went off in that direction, and there was a certain euphoria for a while, the sense that I’ve figured life out, but it was more studying. If there’s someone out there who can relate, there’s a feeling that the answer is out there, that is the number one thing I didn’t understand earlier on. I’d heard it, oh, the answers are within. I’m like, what the hell does that know? So I was always trying to find a method, whether it’s psychology, whether it’s looking at Myers-Briggs or all these things, attachment theory, and then even the spiritual world. This is your karma; this is your past life. This is what the chakras are doing, all that stuff. And I was actually very good from an energetic point of view. But that made it even more confusing because I do see people’s energy fields like, well, this must be the answer. But then again, I always felt lonely and disconnected, even as I started working with clients. So I had a double life.
I was a top analyst at T. Clients were coming to me on the weekends for all this other stuff, shall we say. I didn’t even know what it was called. I was working with people’s energy fields, but I wasn’t any happier. It wasn’t until I had a horrible breakup with this guy. I mean, there’s always some defining moment. Then I finally realized that at that point, all of this self-growth compulsion, this pressure, was not working. And I thought well, I’m either beyond hope, and if I’m beyond hope, I might as well just leave the planet, because this isn’t working anymore. Or, I’m going to have to find a very different way if I’m going to make it another 40 or 50 years on the planet.
So I stopped all this constant self-improvement mantra, the whole Law of Attraction stuff, the toxic positivity, the looking in on my limiting beliefs, all that stuff. There’s a shadow side to it. And I thought it might be fun for us to talk about that today, because I don’t hear enough people talking about this, because the shadow side was what really did me in, because I was so obsessed with figuring myself out. And I see this with a lot of high performers. Just tell me what to do. What is my problem? Give me whatever, and I can fix it. I can do it.
The thought that there is really nothing to do is very alien to the way I was raised. But it wasn’t until that defining moment when this man broke my heart. He hardly knew who I was. And I finally said, this isn’t working. All the self-help, all the psychology, all the spiritual work, all of this positivity is destroying me. So either I’m beyond hope, or I need to find another way. So I contemplated both very seriously.
By leaving, (I think you know what I mean), I said, I just can’t do this anymore. The depression is so overwhelming. Then through a weird sense of I don’t know what happened, but I ran into some people who took one look at me. They’re not famous. They don’t have a Big Book, they don’t have a Ted Talk, but they understood a very different way of growing inside that has nothing to do with the Striving. And I didn’t understand it has a lot to do with embodiment.
I said, what the hell is that? And just because I didn’t even know what that was, told me, oh, it’s worth checking out. I’ve tried everything else, and a lot of this had to do with things I had never heard of. Reconnection with my own sexual energy. I mean, I thought that was interesting. What is embodiment? I wanted to know this … but there’s nothing to know. There’s only the experience. I went through all sorts of tantrums, but I started to feel better without work, and I mean, it was profound. Right now, one of the reasons why I’m very passionate about speaking this way is that my impression is that the self-help, the self-growth industry, is heavily skewed towards fixing, improving, striving.
So you can get something. There’s always a ‘so you get it’, rather than the experience of being more alive, which is a very different side of the house. And when you feel more alive, it’s a heck of a lot easier to do all these other things because you start to feel safe. I never felt safe in my life. Because when you’re always fixing, you can’t stand yourself, if that makes any sense. And if you can’t stand yourself, there’s an escaping, like, escape the pain. Let me go fix something instead of the other way, which is, there’s no more fixing. How can I know myself? So that was profound understanding energy from the embodiment, not so much reiki, that kind of thing, but understanding your own sensuality, my goodness. I didn’t know what that was.
When people can feel this and not just study it, that’s when I believe we need more of community. I think people are off by themselves, reading self-help books, trying to figure themselves out, but they’re fundamentally lonely because we were never wired to live so isolated. So a lot of this has to do with some systemic things going on in our culture, but also some of the myths that we’ve just taken on as true. You don’t know what’s in your blind spot till you discover it. Otherwise we would have. So a lot of this is in the discovery of oneself, how to actually feel more alive, rather than focusing on trying to be happy, I would much rather all my clients feel more alive. When you feel more alive, everything comes online.
Yes, you may feel more sadness, but you’re going to feel more joy too. The whole range of human experience starts to come from black and white and shades of grey, to full blown color of sensuality, of experience in the moment. And I said I’ll take that, because that is a life worth living, rather than chasing how to be more X. So that’s kind of my own hairy story that I almost crashed and burned. That’s why when I tell people what I do, it’s different. I’m not here to tell people how to think or feel, but I’m very interested. When I look at someone’s energy field, the first thing I’m looking for is how alive is this person? And it’s a feeling that can only be experienced. So if you are alive fully, with your entire sensual energy and everything you can feel when someone else isn’t as much, because you have more notes to play with.
Sometimes I explain this because I work with hundreds of people around the world, and a lot of times our high performers are like, what do you mean vibration? It’s just like as if I were a bell and I’m transmitting a signal through my yapping. I could speak in another language. Doesn’t matter. You’re feeling something. And if you’re over there and you start feeling like something is resonating, that’s good enough. That’s all we need to know. Are you feeling something? And if it feels dead as a doorknob, then I’m not the right one. But I’m really interested in people experiencing something in the moment, and that’s a great place to start.
So that’s a long-winded answer. But it really has been my personal journey. That has not been easy. So if you’re out there, if this is resonating, my message to you is don’t give up. Don’t give up.
NICOLE
Yeah, perfect. I relate so much to what you’re saying, Adele, and I have so many questions around it. But I relate personally too, to this idea of self-help being this ladder to climb. Because I was definitely that person, you know? You’re just like, okay, well, I’m just going to keep going to trainings and I’m going to keep working on myself, and then I’ll get better. And then when I’m better, then things will be okay. Like, life will be okay until you hit. I also had a relationship where I totally crashed and burned, and one of my friends was trying to self-help me on the phone forever and we could not figure it out. I was just crying on the floor every day until I found a teacher who really taught me a lot of what you’re talking about.
Just be in the moment of your life and then that’s actually going to give you the life you want, rather than trying to always strive for that next thing. And I know so many listeners are these women you’re talking about, like high achievers. We’re used to being like, we have to go hit things. And I actually love goals, but I don’t look at goals, and I’ve had to really rework clients who have corporate goal setting versus the goal setting I’m talking about, which is an excellent point. Right? Because they have these, like we have to hit our Q1, Q2, whatever goals. And I was like, well, I don’t work that way. But it’s an interesting thing that you’re talking about it, because it’s so easy. And I’m curious about for you that idea of I have to fix myself and then I have to keep doing it better each time. Where do you feel like you learn that from?
ADELE WANG
Yeah. Oh my God. Parents, culture, society, advertising, even the self-help industry. The self-help industry works if people are constantly working on themselves. If there’s someone that comes on the market and says, “You’re absolutely fine. You’re just getting to know more of yourself, not fixing”. Knowing yourself has a different vibration than fixing. If you’re listening out there, maybe you can feel if I say you’re working on yourself, can you feel how heavy that is? It feels like a project plan.
All right. Step one, week one, I’m going to do this and this. Can you feel how heavy that is. I’m working on myself – my life is one constant self-improvement project. Right. Getting to know yourself is like getting to know someone. What do you like? What turns you on? What are your dreams? What hurts today? It’s a different vibration. I know that word has been misused a lot because we’re trying to describe a feeling in your body more than a concept. But if you can feel the difference between a self-improvement fix it model vs a get-to-know yourself model – very different. One feels, to me, very restrictive, and the other one is more curious. Yeah, and I couldn’t agree with you more of what you said before, because people come to me, and I ask them, what have you done so far? Well, I’ve tried therapy. I’ve done this coaching. I’ve done all this other stuff. And I’m like, well, do you feel any like, sometimes just knowing about things people think, then I’ll feel better.
I don’t know, Nicole. In my experience, that has not been as helpful as people think. If I knew why I’m this obsessed with this kind of man, or if I knew why my attitude towards money is this wonky, then I’ll feel better. I’m like, maybe it gives you some framework. It can be useful. But I’ve not found that that is where the biggest juice of growth, excitement, the “oh, my gosh” of real results is. I’ve not found the ‘knowing stuff’ to be as useful.
NICOLE
Well, I find that I was talking about this with a client recently when we’re constantly chasing, like, what’s the root of anxiety? What’s the root of the depression? It’s like it actually just takes you further down the spiral that actually makes you feel worse. You feel bad, you feel worse.
ADELE WANG
What is the root of this? So you’re going to spend two or three months digging around, which is not wrong, but I feel like it’s a distraction. So sometimes I have clients obsessed with understanding why something happened, breakup, lost a job. These things happen, and they’re like, I’ve got to know why this happened. So they’re like reading the tea leaves, or they’re going inward. They’re doing all this stuff. And my thought is, is it possible that there may be a reason why this happened, but what if you’re not allowed to know, or the answer doesn’t come until you’re 99 years old, what are you going to do between now and age 99. Is it possible you can rock it out in this life without having to know why something happened? Is that allowed? And the ego has to sit there and say ’no’ because it’s obsessed with control. And the more I spend in digging around, the more checked out I am from the life that’s right in front of me.
I’m working on myself, still figuring it out. And my number one question is, is it helping you feel any better? And if it’s not, maybe put it on the shelf for a little bit and come back to the land of the living where, warts and all, we do our best. We’re not supposed to come into this world knowing how life works. There’s only some greater source that really knows. Your job is to rock out and have as good a time as you possibly can in your money, your relationships, what you want to be doing. That’s the juice.
NICOLE
Totally. And this actually reminds me, I had an experience recently where I was hosting a retreat in Hawaii, and we had a last minute change of venue. And I could have gone down this really crazy path of why? I’ve planned this months ago. Why isn’t this happening? But what happened instead was I was given another venue and it worked out beautifully. And when we were there, I didn’t fixate on the old venue. I didn’t fixate on why that happened.
And how could I possibly? I’m this person who works with people all the time on figuring out their lives, and we just have to know that sometimes things happen, and sometimes it brings up tons of uncertainty. The outcome actually was really great. So let’s focus on the outcome that was really great, rather than fixating on what was so bad and wrong in that situation and being mad or upset about it. And I wasn’t mad. I was like, well, it happened. Now we just have to move over to this one, and it worked out really wonderful. So why can’t we be focused on the wonderful, right, rather than the opposite?
ADELE WANG
And I think it’s human for us to ruminate. I’m the worst offender. Everything that pops out of my mouth, Nicole, has truly come from the School of Hard Knocks. There is nothing that I talk about that I haven’t personally vetted because I know it. It’s not that I have made all of these mistakes, not just once or twice. I was a slow learner, tried 5,10,15,20 times, and that’s why. And each time I got hit in the face slightly differently. So I understand why the mind does that and it’s looking for a reason: Safety.
I mean, how human is that? Totally. But what I find happens a lot of times is people are so caught up with trying to tell people, “Don’t think that way, think this way”. It can make people feel a little bit wonky; you sort of have to discover it for yourself. So that’s why I’m always a little bit nervous of self-help books that say, “Don’t think this, think this”. And my thought is, well, that worked for that person, the author. Each of these wonderful self-help books is one person’s experience. Nothing wrong with that. But it’s not yours until you have actually lived it once, twice or three times, and then it’s just sort of in your bones.
If it’s not in your bones, there’s a tendency to tell everybody a lot. What I’ve noticed is when someone is still working through their own medicine, it’s front and center. So there’s a tendency to be encouraging everybody else. It’s the same. Everybody’s like that. Once it’s really in your body, there’s not as much of that compulsion anymore. It’s more of a, “Oh, yeah, I used to do that. Totally get it”.
So, yeah, humans are weird, aren’t we? We’re a funny species.
NICOLE
We really are. And there’s endless depths to all the stuff that’s going on inside, and exploring that.
ADELE WANG
Absolutely.
NICOLE
For sure. Well, I love what you’re sharing, too, about how you stopped the fixing and worked more on the “I heard” being. I don’t remember exactly the language you use, but I think of it as being like how can you be more in that being? And with people who are such strivers. How do you tell them to start to release a little bit from that intense holding and intense striving?
ADELE WANG
I love this question because I work with a lot of high achievers that aren’t used to not understanding something. They get impatient. Just tell me what it is. And the easiest thing I have found to just speed up this whole process is to rediscover your natural sensuality. Again, in my experience, that has been the fastest way to get people out of their heads. There’s that part of it, but it’s also when people are stuck in their heads, they don’t notice the color of the sky. They don’t notice colors, tastes, sound, music, because they’re somewhere else. So how do I be? Turn on your ability to feel alive, and that’s your sensuality. If you don’t have sensuality, it’s hard to feel alive.
So rather than worry about how to be what’s the beingness of the being like, it gets really esoteric. The words are floating around out there, and people don’t even know what we are talking about. I tell them to just focus on their sensual energy. And then people go, “What?” Because that’s often been ignored, and that is a foundational part of my work, because it’s so much faster than all of this other theoretical stuff, or your attachment style, or your Myers-Briggs test. All that stuff is interesting, I can geek out on it. But in the end, I have found when people focus on those things, it’s missing something, it’s slow. People are forever working on their attachment style.
But what do you feel in your body? Go there. It’s just faster. So if anyone out there is going, “What the heck are they talking about with the beingness? I’ve heard that as a spiritual saying, life. I’m a human being, not a human doer.” We’ve all heard that, right? Turn on your natural sensuality. Start there. So in my work with a lot of women, this part of them is just shut down. They have lost all connection to their feminine essence, their sexuality, and there are many reasons for this.
We don’t have time to get into all of them today. But sometimes it’s cultural. Sometimes it’s things that have happened in their life that is said is not safe to embrace that part of yourself. Sometimes it’s family, whatever. The reasons to me, are not as important. Why go digging in there? It’s more like, let me just get in here, let me show you how to turn it on. And once we turn it on, we need some way to keep it on, because the minute stress is around, it’ll probably go under. So that’s a big part of my work with women.
I find it so much faster than self-help, or affirmations, or vision quests, all this other stuff, which I also enjoy, but if that were enough, why are people still feeling so blah?
NICOLE
What did you find then when you did it yourself, you turned on, what changed for you?
ADELE WANG
Oh, my gosh. I was shocked, Nicole. I was absolutely shocked. I don’t know any other way to explain the rate of transformation inside of me. Now, it’s not like I was trying to be happier. Sensuality is a way to feel more alive. And again, that’s the key right now. Everybody’s chasing, “How do I be happier?” Which is running away from sadness. And the minute you do that, you split the world into two. There are good feelings and there are bad feelings. I’m like, well, hell, they’re just feelings. And it’s like colors. We need the full gamut. So when you are more sensually awake, you will feel more of everything. And that includes intimacy, that includes nervousness or whatever, because all that’s been suppressed. So a lot of my clients, when they first started working with me, they’re basically kind of numb.
So numbness means sometimes, they are comfortably numb? And do you want to live that way? Most people don’t. I have never met someone who preferred a numb life. What people are really yearning for is to feel more alive. They think it’s wanting to be happier. But if you’re more alive, you will feel everything. You’re just going to feel more engaged with life. And that is a more worthwhile life. I’ll take that any day.
Then you’re also not sitting around thinking about how to be happier because you’re in the life. You’re being happy, sad, irritated. And then we have other tools to work on those things. Oh, I have an issue with XYZ. Yes, then it’s so much easier. But I think the reason why psychotherapy and many coaching programs are slow, is that they’re primarily focused on the cognitive, or maybe the spiritual karma, clearing the Chakra system. I studied all that for years in a spiritual development school, so I understand, but it can be a bypass to really feeling alive.
NICOLE
How did that help you, then? In terms of your own self-worth and having your own business and some of the social media pieces, how do we translate that? Because I totally get that feeling of how I feel alive, and then how do I be in my life in a different way? And how does it help me actually do things that are outside of what I’m used to? Because to me, when you really are alive, that’s when you can actually start to step into the life you’ve had before. Because the numb place, the striving place, is when we’re stuck, like we’re climbing ladders we don’t really care about. There’s all these sort of societal ideas of how to live life. So I’m curious how that connected for you into the life you have.
ADELE WANG
Gosh, first of all, I had no idea how numb I am. I am like the worst case example because of that, so I’m probably the best mouthpiece for this work. It’s not like I came from this happy family and had it off. No, for me, feeling alive and tapping into your natural sensuality, one of the things that is priceless, that will help you in everything dating, social media, building the business, anything that’s scary, the sensual piece will help you feel safer. When people don’t feel safe, it’s almost impossible to do any real transformational, know that type feeling. And I can’t tell you, Nicole, how many people I see that are beating themselves up trying to get over their issue of X. And I can look at the energetic field, like on Zoom. I look at it and it’s imploding.
I’m like, hold the phone, hold the phone. Maybe we need to help you feel better first. And for many people, this is counterintuitive. They feel like, well, once I figure out the reason why I have this issue, then I’ll feel better. I’m like, no, what if I challenge you a little bit? It’s the opposite. There are ways you can feel safer and better now without anything changing around you. And then once you’ve got that, then making that phone call for your client or whatever, you’re going to feel better. And I yell at all my clients, “Feel better first!” And they’re not used to that, because they’re so hard on themselves. And I’m like, well, you can continue to do it that way if you want to, but there’s another way that’s so much faster, so much faster and easier. I’m not saying it’s easy as in easy street, but you’re going to feel like you’re getting somewhere. That the rate of change, the rate of progress. You’re going to feel proud of yourself.
One limitation I’ve noticed with people who do a lot of therapy, depending on the kind of therapy it is, it seems to go on and on for a long time with people talking about the same thing week in and week out. And I mean, I have a therapist. It’s a very special kind of therapist. Given what I do with hundreds of people around the world, there’s always something that comes up in me. But the number one question I always ask, if someone’s been in therapy a long time is, are you feeling any better? I mean, it’s usually a yes or a no. It’s not like I have to think about it too much. And if it’s not working, try either another therapist a different way. I worked with someone who was in therapy for like 18 years, and I don’t know where this person started, but I have to say, once we started working, she just came alive! So people just don’t know of what embodiment is. There’s so much possible now. Different things work for different people.
This is what has worked for me. And a lot of people that I work with, they tend to be high performers, sensitive, smart, like they have a strong critical mind. And usually there’s a spiritual element that’s opening purpose, like what am I supposed to be doing? Like these bigger questions. That stuff absolutely needs to be incorporated into the work. And in fact, what I tell all my clients is every decision that’s causing anxiety on the surface, if you peel back the issue, whatever it is, job, boss, spouse, if you peel underneath, there is a rumbling underneath all that of the basic existential uncertainties of life. And if you don’t work with someone who’s willing to go there with your life, it can feel like a bunch of tactical coaching, just do this or change your thinking about that. But it’s not based on something that you can really sink into that’s solid, because really nothing is solid in this world.
But until you incorporate the unsolidness or the solidity of unsolvedness, somehow everything else is going to feel very tactical, if that makes sense. So I would say that’s another piece that for me has made a huge difference. It came from the embodiment. And what I talk a lot about with my clients is these existential questions about life. Meaning? Meaning, how are you with loss? Most people? Not so great. How are you with ambiguity? Not so great. How are you with the volatility of life? Not so great. These are not coaching questions that have an answer.
See, this is different. A lot of coaching is like, define the answer. But how comfortable are you with these big questions? Because if you’re not, everything’s always white-knuckled. Anyway, sorry, I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent.
NICOLE
Well, it’s an interesting tangent, and I think a relevant one, because when you talk about all of those pieces to me also, I hear resilience. It’s like, are you resilient in the life that you have? Because life is always going to be uncertain. There’s always going to be challenge, there’s always going to be death, there’s always going to be loss. That’s just an absolute. And I always tell people, too, when you come to me, we’re not going to make life hunky dory all the time, because it’s just not life. Yeah, there’s no way you can control it. Everybody has people they love. Everybody has stuff that’s going on. Relationships end. So much happens, right? But it’s more about how you can be responsive to that and still be in a life that you feel good in.
ADELE WANG
I love that you are discussing this with clients, because I think there are levels of the conversation, because if you talk to most high performers, they already know this life’s not fair. You can’t control people. Crap happens to everybody. Like, intellectually, that awareness is there. It’s not like they’re saying,” Oh my God, Adele, I didn’t know that.” Of course they do. But I’m more interested in their relationship with these things.
Does the energy cramp? So a lot of high performers know this intellectually, but when I look at the way they’re making decisions, the way they’re responding, it’s very white-knuckle. So that means, “I know this, but dang, I’m hanging on for dear life, and I hope that doesn’t happen to me.” But there’s another level that says, “No matter what happens, if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, I’ll be all right.” Because once you have that feeling, nothing will scare you. That this date you’re on or somebody wigs out on you in a relationship, it’ll hurt, might break your heart, but it won’t kill you because you’ve already dealt with that. Life is full of crap we’ll never be able to predict. And this is very young. When I speak to high performers, they know how to say the right things.
But in the energy field, in the body, it’s like, yeah, I know that, but if I read the tea leaves just right, I can avoid that problem totally. Oh, my God, we all do it. And I’m talking to that’s how I was. That’s why I went into the spirituality stuff. I thought you do that; you get right with God. Then nothing bad will ever happen. Yeah, it doesn’t work that way.
NICOLE
Yeah, it really doesn’t. And I love that you’re honest about it because I think that it is true sometimes, the white knuckling for sure. All my clients do that, and I’m sure many of the people listening are like white knucklers who are thinking, “Okay, I’m not alone. I’m going to control my way out of this situation and if I can just hold on tight enough, then I will definitely get through it.” But actually what just happens is you’re like white knuckling your whole life.
ADELE WANG
And I’ll be positive, and those positive vibes will go out into the world and attract good things to me. I mean, there is a little bit of magical thinking that sometimes creeps in, but that’s understandable.
NICOLE
Well it’s good, and I feel like what we’re doing is just having an honest conversation about it, because it is true, and it’s what I talk with my clients about. But I think sometimes publicly we don’t talk about it enough.
ADELE WANG
Well, it’s not sexy, when I look at the big wigs. Are you going to make tons of billions of dollars telling people no one really knows, life is uncertain, do your best. And there’s nothing really to work on except getting to know and accept yourself. I mean, that is the foundational most useful information. That’s all you need to know. But that doesn’t sell books. That doesn’t have people. But the strategic stuff does.
So if you’re a dating coach, I mean, there’s always the fine tuning. “Should I call him after the third date or what should I do if we have incompatible differences?” Like sure, but I’m more interested in the deeper levels, because once you have that base down, you can fly, and then the strategic stuff won’t be as all-consuming.
NICOLE
Well, I am all in for that too, for flying versus being at that lower place. Well, I love what you’re sharing, Adele, it’s been honestly just super. I love the way you speak in such an honest, forthright way, and so thank you so much for speaking from that place.
ADELE WANG
Thank you for having me. I’ve enjoyed this conversation.
NICOLE
Thank you so much. I know we’ve been talking about embodiment, but is there even like a simple practice you would give for everyone? What’s like the first thing to do to just start to help themselves with that sensuality and embodiment?
ADELE WANG
Yes, exactly. And there are a couple of things I would say on that. Number one, it is easier with somebody, because it’s in your blind spot. It’s like, if you’ve never seen the color purple, it’s kind of hard to just see it or conjure it up. So I do run regular, little lab mini workshops with small groups on Zoom. That is the easiest way. Because otherwise when you do it by yourself, you question if you’re doing it right? Because it’s a sensation. But in general, it’s developing more awareness, especially of the lower body, especially women who are highly empathic.
And the energy tends to be pulled out of the body. Like when you look at the aura, it’s pulled out, especially when women are looking at each other. It goes out through the eyes a little bit. This is a lot. What can I share? Just focus. Feel your lower belly more. Just do that. Just start with that. That’s like the easiest place to just be curious. A lot of people don’t feel anything. Imagine breathing out of your lower hips. There’s a whole practice to stimulating this part of your body again. And I do that in my Spark mini workshops and in my private work. It’s hard to describe to people, like, if you’re listening at home and you’re going, what? If you’re listening in the car or sitting down, just focus on your butt. Not just what you’re sitting on, but what you’re sitting with. Just develop a more sensual connection to your lower body.
Just start with that. I mean, there’s a lot more I could say, but I feel like that’s not complicated, but it’s like one of these things, what am I doing? And just try it. Just try it. And it is easier when you have someone showing you.
NICOLE
Yeah. Start with focusing on your butt. I like it. Focus on super simple.
ADELE WANG
Super simple on being in your body. The difference is, for example, I’m focusing on my hand. Oh, there’s my hand. But I can also be inside my hand. And then I notice the nerves, the pulse. It’s that shift, because usually we are very focus-oriented when we look at something, but we’re not in it. So in it is a sensual experience.
NICOLE
Yeah. Okay. Love that. That’s a helpful first place to go. I love it Adele. Thank you so much. Let’s do rapid fire questions.
ADELE WANG
Sure.
NICOLE
Okay, so what was the last thing that you watched on television?
ADELE WANG
Oh, my gosh. The last thing? It’s been a while. I don’t have much time for TV these days. What was the last thing? It wasn’t very good. I think I turned it off. It was some corny Netflix movie. Couldn’t tell you what it is, but it was nothing profound. I can’t tell you it’s a classic movie and sound elegant – I don’t remember.
NICOLE
Sometimes that’s the thing that’s on Netflix. Okay, what’s on your nightstand?
ADELE WANG
Nightstand? I have a lot of things, well, in my phone. I do have one book. What’s the title of it? It’s a meditation book. And I also have one on my bookshelf. Let me see if I can find it. I recommend this book for anyone who has been through a loss. It’s called Healing After Loss. I love this book. It’s classic. It’s a simple meditation, one page a day for 365 days. I always recommend this book because I lost my husband recently, and this book has been very helpful, simple.
NICOLE
And does it have an author?
ADELE WANG
Oh, sorry. Martha Hickman.
NICOLE
Martha Hickman. Healing After Loss, with Martha. Hickman. Okay, great.
ADELE WANG
Absolutely awesome.
NICOLE
Yeah. Thank you. And then when was the last time you tried something new? And what was it?
ADELE WANG
Tried something new? Let’s see. What would it be? Oh, well, I went to Spain a few months ago by myself. I had never travelled internationally by myself because I was always with my husband. So that was definitely stepping out of my comfort zone, to travel alone. I was meeting some people there, but I was now a solo traveller. It was an internal shift for me. That was different.
NICOLE
Yeah, that’s a big shift.
ADELE WANG
Huge shift to sit in a foreign country in a cafe in Spain, alone, and taking things in. It’s different than when you’re with a partner. I mean, it was wonderful, but it’s a different experience. It was wonderful, though. Good.
NICOLE
I’m glad to hear that. I feel like that’s like a whole other conversation, traveling alone.
ADELE WANG
Yeah, for sure.
NICOLE
Okay, and then last one. What are your top three most used emojis on your phone?
ADELE WANG
Smiley face. The one with a kind of sheepish grin. And the one with the sunglasses like, cool, man.
NICOLE
Awesome. Well, Adele, it’s been such a delight to have you on and sharing your journey and then sharing how you support others in that journey. It’s just a delight. I love your energy. So thank you so much for being on School of Self-Worth with us today.
ADELE WANG
Oh, thank you for having me. This has been a wonderful conversation.
NICOLE
Thank you so much. And everything with Adele is listed in the show notes on how to reach out to her. We are so grateful to you for being here.
Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget if you are a high achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you. So make sure to DM me quiz @t nicoletsong on instagram. Thank you for being here and for listening. We read every note that we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.
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