The REAL Reason Dating Might Not Be Working For You with Andi Forness, Part 1

• The biggest pushback about dating that Andi usually gets from clients (10:00)
• How dating can be a form of personal development for growth and healing (13:38) 
• Reframing the way you look at dating in order to make it easier and more enjoyable (17:57)
• Why Andi recommends the Bumble app to women, especially if they are new to dating (19:36)
• The importance of getting to know your own preferences (20:15)

“I use the going out and dating as a form of personal development, especially at the beginning stages. The end goal was to find someone but I knew that I had to do a lot of personal development. The most efficient way is to do it. You heal in the face of another person. You could be a completely different person because these are complete strangers and you get to try on different behaviors, and let go of some that don’t serve you. There’s a beauty in it.”

“The reason we are in a relationship or a dating scenario that we don’t like or we’re not liking the guys that are showing up is because we’re actually down there, too. We don’t have the skills to be able to have this magnificent relationship with a guy or girl that you want. You don’t have it yet because if you did, you’d already have it. You’re not looking for a unicorn.”

“One of the reasons that you go out dating is to either heal or to evolve your relationship skills. That’s the first one where I get pushback. A lot of people want to say, yeah, but it’s just like chemistry, and I don’t have chemistry as a person or he’s not my type. And when you look back, no one has been their type. Right? Yeah. Their type hasn’t really worked. And that’s the first part is really having to try to you need people that are open to trying new things and so trying new things looks like.”

“The reason I like Bumble is because all the women that I’ve coached are smart, capable, and also busy. When you go to other sites, it gets overwhelming. Bumble is efficient and it’s fast. You get to pick first. You are a strong woman who gets to pick.”

“I want you to pay attention to that, and I really want you to feel that. And I’ll go even further, ladies. I want that to be sexy. We’re not looking at how he looks at this point. We’ve got to start feeling taken care of, and meeting someone that honors our wants and helps us out. That’s the stuff that needs to be sexy and we need to pay attention to.” 

NICOLE

Welcome to The School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly, as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.

Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

Hello and welcome back to the School of Self-Worth. Today, I’m seriously so excited to introduce you all to Andi Forness, my dating coach, who was a major support and guide when I dove into dating after divorce. I’ve known Andi for years, and this woman has coached hundreds of women into powerful, connected relationships. She knows her stuff, and in this episode, Andi shares about the major mistakes most women make when it comes to dating and how to turn dating from an emotional, unpredictable journey into one where you reclaim your own personal power. Our conversation was so juicy, we broke it up into two parts. Tune in today to learn why the way you’ve been dating might not be working. Trust me, Andi dropped some major truth bombs in this episode. If you are a high-achieving career woman who wants to uncover her own roadmap to personal power, DM me power on Instagram, I’ve got something for you. 

Okay, let’s get started. Well, Andi, I’m so excited to have you here on the show. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth.

ANDI FORNESS

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I’m super excited to be here and chat with you.

NICOLE

Well, I had this idea, actually. One of my clients had been asking me about dating, and I was thinking I should really bring my dating coach onto the podcast. And she’s like, ‘Yes, you should’. And I got a couple of other people who also wanted me to please bring her on. So I’m so excited that you’re here to talk about it, because I feel like actually part of the genesis even of this podcast, was for me around the self-worth journey I really experienced in dating and relationships, especially going through divorce and then dating again. And so even though we haven’t dug too deeply into the podcast yet, I will be sharing more of that. I really felt this seemed like such a great place to have this conversation. So you and I, I think, have so much to talk about, because the format for this will be a little different. We will talk first, really, about Andi’s background, her experience, and how she thinks about dating in relationship to worthiness and value. And then we’ll get to the really juicy, how did Nicole debate date post-divorce and how did Andi handhold her to get her through some of those things? Yes. So we’ll be doing it in two chunks, and I’m really excited to have this conversation with you. And so, this is a question I don’t think I’ve ever asked you… how did you even become a dating coach? Could you tell us a little bit about your journey to get to that point?

ANDI FORNESS

Sure. So gosh, 15 to 20 years ago, I got a divorce and I thought that it would be really easy for me to just go on out and meet someone – I’m in a big city. I was attractive, I’m smart and fun and all this kind of stuff. I thought it was just going to be simple, like, we’re going to get a divorce, and sure I’ll find someone that matches me now. Right? My ex-husband and I met in college and we were a great match. But then fast forward 20 years, I kind of felt like we weren’t really a match anymore. I mean, there’s more to it, but I thought it’d be really easy, and it wasn’t. And what I recognized, maybe after like a year or two, is that I was doing the same stuff. I was doing the same things. I was feeling the exact same way. And that’s when I knew that I needed to do some internal work because even though I changed the person, I was feeling exactly like it was all repeating itself. And so I got into Carl Jung Jungian coaching, and I was going to be a life coach. But I realized, like maybe my first six months, I decided to niche down and actually take the coaching process of looking at persona, shadow, and all the yummy stuff that self-help people are into – intention and manifesting and all that kind of stuff. Yoga, all the things we learn, like little adjustments, everything. I decided to just put all of my knowledge and all my thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of personal development and put it into one area: Dating.

NICOLE TSONG

That’s really cool. The background is that Andi and I met through yoga teacher training. So we really go way back, probably to that era, and then left and went and lived our own lives for a while, and then she was sharing a lot about dating. This is when I started to actually come to you first, really for business rather than for dating.

Can you share how you decided to niche down into dating, and was it because the work you were doing was helping you start to figure out dating? Like, how did you start to work through dating, both in your own life, as well as supporting others with it?

ANDI FORNESS

Well, it was really like I said, I think before I started doing the online business, if you will. I thought dating was just like, random. You just randomly met somebody or you felt the vibe of somebody, and it was like attraction and all that kind of stuff. And I didn’t really realize until I started building a business, that you actually can create, but you’ve got to put some effort into it. You can actually create. And when I realized the similarities between building an online business and online dating, it just kind of ‘chink, chink’ to me. So that’s essentially where it was. Maybe when you’re 20 and you’ve got all this time and you’re vibing out in the world and all this kind of stuff, but when you’re like, 40 and I had small kids at the time, and I was trying to start a business, there was not a lot of me going out and vibing with the world. I was just not out in the world, really. I was literally at work or at home or on a soccer field. So I really had to make it more intentional.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah, that’s so powerful because I share some of what Andi has taught me with my clients, and we always talk about it, and they’re like, you can date that way? And I’m like, absolutely. And actually, I wish I had known. I mean, I don’t know if I could have accepted it at 25, because you’re meeting more people and you’re out all the time. And I still remember back in those days, I would feel frustrated because you’d go to a bar and I’m like, but I don’t know if I really want to meet someone at a bar and then what kind of person am I going to meet? Just like hanging out at a bar. And no offense to anyone who’s listening who may have met their partner at a bar, but for me, I felt really challenged around that, even when I was young. So what would you say then for you, understanding that intentionality? I’m always curious because what I really learned from you before I had the language of this podcast, and even the language of self-worth, was actually being in a more powerful, worthy place around dating. And how did that come to fruition then, for what you started to teach other people around how to date?

ANDI FORNESS

It was because I had to really realize that it was under the umbrella of ‘this isn’t just random’.  I feel like when we’re younger we’re just like waiting for somebody to like us or waiting for the guy to pick us. Even before that, we’re waiting to be picked for what was that game? Heads up, seven up, or we’re waiting to get picked by our parents. Whatever we get in class, we waited to be picked on. It’s like I believed we structured our life that way. And so I realized that I was just kind of defaulting, and when I first started dating, even at 40, (because I hadn’t really dated that much prior to getting married) that I was just defaulting to people picking me. And when I realized I did that, I was kind of ‘victimy’, right? Like I had no power in it. I was always upset. I realized that I had to start choosing, and what I will say the pushback that I always get, because my favorite platform is Bumble if we’re going to talk about nuts and bolts. My biggest pushback people say is, ‘Oh, but I don’t want to do all the work’. That’s what women always say, right? 

I do have a lot of emotions, but I also have a very analytical side to me and I’m an only child. I’m very vocal, I’m a teacher. It’s like all of these things made me afraid to be pushy bossy. I didn’t want to be the alpha in the relationship. So I was passive and I would let all of this happen, but then I wouldn’t like any of the results. It’s just like this spiral of me being passive because that’s what I kind of thought that I wanted. But then I didn’t like any of the results. I didn’t like whatever restaurant they were going to. I didn’t like who they were, I didn’t like what they participated in. And so that’s kind of ‘Oh, well’.

NICOLE TSONG

Even when you were saying that I think about when people love to tell women that you’re air quote ‘too much, don’t be so much because the guys aren’t going to like that’. That kind of stuff gets so trained into us. When you are smart and ambitious and you have big dreams, don’t be too much. And now I’m like, what do you mean don’t be too much? But I used to always internalize that too. It’s like tamp yourself down a little it  so you get picked.

ANDI FORNESS

Totally. Or I also think, as women, it’s one of the things that other generations have taught us. I think it’s actually been like a safety thing. When I think about my mom who grew up like that – it was like don’t draw attention to yourself.

NICOLE

Oh, absolutely. And I feel like it’s such a learning, right, for the days now where it’s so much about women empowering themselves and taking that back. Totally. And at the same time, it’s kind of crazy to me. I remember when we started to work together, which I will get into, but how much I had internalized that being picked you basically have to kind of be in love with me, for me to start dating you. Which is like a pretty backward premise. And so I only dated people who I worked with or who I was already friends with, like people who really knew me well and basically were completely all in before the dating started. Which now I look back at it and I laugh. But that was how I dealt with it. That was how I kind of protected myself to only be with guys who really were picking me and there was no potential for being rejected.

And it’s amazing how much you don’t even see that stuff. Sometimes I feel like especially if you’re a smart, ambitious woman who really succeeds in your career or in other areas of your life, it can be really hard to want to look at that. And would you say that was it divorce or dating, or all of these pieces probably were starting to force you to look at it and then helped you to start help other women to do the same?

ANDI FORNESS

Well, I guess what it was is I had learned through my personal development coaches and leaders, how to get my power back. And it was really about that when I started, which we’ll get into it. But I do use the going out and dating as a form of personal development, especially at the beginning stages. The end goal was to find someone. But I knew that I had to do a lot of personal development. Not with my journal. And I say this all the time, and this is not saying that journals are bad or meditation is bad, but from a lot of people, one of the things that I used to hear was, I need to go and heal or I need to go and meditate more or get good and get all my stuff out of my journal. And what I believe is that’s one way to do it, but the most efficient way I believe is to do it. You heal in the face of another person. And so how do you see a dating app as a way to heal yourself from past relationships, from past trauma, whatever? How do you use those men? And I’m saying use it lightly as a vehicle for you to realize: This is what you didn’t do right? Because you didn’t know, but you could be a completely different person because these are complete strangers, and you get to try on different behaviors, and also let go of some that don’t serve you. And there’s a beauty in it, being a complete stranger in front of you.

NICOLE TSONG

I mean, it’s such a reframe because I remember when I started to do things I had never done before, based on what we were working on, like telling someone I liked them really early, and I was like, you just do this. You just tell people you like them so early. And now I’m like, well, yeah, of course. You definitely should tell them you like them, if you like them. And for me, it was like such a change in my mindset because I had never thought that. But when I think you presented it to me kind of like an experiment, it’s like, oh, I’m just practicing, and it actually made dating easier. I was like, I’m just practicing being powerful in dating, and that’s it. And whether I like this guy or not, I’m just going to be powerful that way. And this applies, I think, to all relationships, right? But especially in the dating world?

ANDI FORNESS

The reason we are in a relationship or a dating scenario that we don’t like, or we’re not liking the guys that are showing up, is because we’re actually down there, too. We don’t have the skills to be able to have this magnificent relationship with a guy or girl that you want. You don’t have it yet because if you did, you’d already have it. You’re not looking for a unicorn. But I can just say so many times that I let quality guys that were on my level, go because I wasn’t attracted to them. That was my defense. I mean, I always unconsciously went for the person that it was probably not going to work out with, or I would feel unfulfilled, and it would keep that whole cycle.

NICOLE TSONG

Andy is dropping the truth bombs here already. But you start to look at yourself and who you have brought in, and then that’s a hard thing to look at because I would say this for any of you who are listening, who are in that dating place, it does really start with looking at those old relationships, okay? That’s the pattern that showed up in that old relationship. How am I going to switch it up now? How am I going to do it differently this time around? Because it’s not like that last person was all bad, but there are the pieces that didn’t work, obviously. So how can you start to look at the ones that are going to be different going forward, right? 

Well, I love this conversation because it’s like bringing me back to all the times when Andi and I were really having these conversations for me and my life. But first, before we get into it, I would love to hear more about why you like Bumble and what your preferences are for that dating place, what people are pushing back on you, and what suggestions you have for women who are even starting to consider this, and how to look at it a little differently.

ANDI FORNESS

Yeah, so the first reason is that you go out dating to either heal or to evolve your relationship skills. That’s the first one where I get pushback. A lot of people want to say, yeah, but it’s just like chemistry, and I don’t have chemistry as a person or he’s not my type. And when you look back, no one has been their type. Right? Their type hasn’t really worked. And that’s the first part, really having to try to. You need people that are open to trying new things and so trying new things looks like Bumble. The reason I like Bumble is because all the women that I’ve coached are smart, capable, and they’re also busy. And when you go to other sites, unfortunately, and they don’t have a lot of time, what happens is you get so many emails, it gets overwhelming. So what I like about Bumble, it’s like efficient and it’s fast and it’s this whole piece of so this goes with yourself. You pick. You get to pick first. And I really want everyone to hear this. It’s not you out there being like the strident alpha male, like going out there. You are a strong woman who gets to pick. You get to pick anyways. Now, whether or not it matches with them, that remains to be seen. But the first part of all of it is that you get to pick. You get to message first, you get to do all of it. Because what I like about it, for women especially that haven’t dated a long time or they’re scared, you get to manage it.

NICOLE TSONG

Good. Thank you. Well, she’s bringing me back to these times when I started dating. So I feel like it’s worth it for us to just kind of go into these flashbacks and as Andi said, she doesn’t remember. And I was like, I remember, I remember all of those details well, because one of the things she has you do, is start to state how you feel like state your preferences. And I will say I credit you, Andy, with really teaching me my preferences, because I remember when I was in the dating world, and this is one of my old patterns, I would just be like, whatever you want. I would just be really easygoing for whatever they wanted. So whatever my partners or the people I was dating wanted, I didn’t really do it. And I did it with my friends as well. And I remember one of my very earliest assignments with you because you asked me if that had been happening in my previous relationship and I said, yes, definitely. I would always say, what do you want for dinner? And then whatever he wanted for dinner is like what I would make or what we would do to go out. And you said, ‘Well, I’m sure you have preference?’ And I remember thinking, I think so, but I’m fine with whatever. And you said you were still certain I had some preferences. So I was going with a couple of my girlfriends on a weekend, and you said my assignment is to start to state my preferences. And I remember that weekend I was driving with them, and they’re also very strong women with lots of perspectives and preferences. But I remember right away we were talking about we were going to cook that weekend. And I was like, these are the things I want to cook. And they were like, okay, you just have to say it.

ANDI FORNESS

Yeah, right. And so it’s like using those each bit of the dating process. I remember one woman, her only assignment was to actually feel taken care of, meaning the guy was going to, I think it was like meet her halfway. They were like in a big metropolitan city, he’s going to meet her halfway so that she wasn’t going to have to, because this is what happens, right? So you don’t have a preference. You let the guy pick because you’re under the whole thing that the guy needs to lead, right? I want a guy that leads. Well, then he picks a place that’s like an hour in traffic and you’ve worked all day and then you’ve got to go down there because you let him lead. Then you kind of go in a bad mood because you’ve been in traffic for an hour, and you’re actually not really available to date, right? Or you get mad if it doesn’t go well or it doesn’t go to a next date. And you’ve let all these things just kind of like happen to you, where you could have taken control.

Anyways, back to this one, she did not want to date this man. He didn’t even end up being in it. And I kind of knew he wasn’t, but I love that he was going to meet her halfway. And I said, I just need you to go and see what that’s like. Go feel that experience of someone offering to meet you halfway, right, to feel, or whatever it was. I just remember she was just like, I don’t want to go out. This is not the guy for me. And I’m like, I know it’s not the guy for you. Actually, I said, we don’t know yet. But what I do know is he’s willing to meet you halfway to make your life easier. And I want you to pay attention to that, and I really want you to feel that. And I’ll go even further, ladies. I want that to be sexy. We’re not looking at how he looks at this point. We’ve got to start feeling taken care of, and making someone that honors our wants, helps us out. That’s the stuff that needs to be sexy and we need to pay attention to. Totally.

NICOLE

I remember when I started dating work with you, Andi. It was about six months post-separation. I was not fully divorced yet. It was like a month before COVID, but we didn’t know that. And so I was like, okay, here I go. I was totally in that New Year energy. I started to swipe and got matches!

ANDI FORNESS

All your dates were walks.

NICOLE

They were all walks because it was during COVID. But at the time, I don’t know if you remember this guy, but I distinctly remember I had a phone call with him because this is one of the first things Andi teaches us, to have a phone call with them. I was on the phone with him, and I found him kind of boring, and she totally drilled me on that. She’s like, ‘Why is he boring?’ I was like, I don’t know. There’s just something in his voice. I just don’t even really know if I want to go on a date. And for whatever reason, this guy was going on a trip, and then when he came back, we were going to go on the date, and I was like, I don’t know how I feel about this. But then while he was gone, he actually sent me a photo of a whale that he had seen on the trip that he had taken. I don’t know if he had been diving or what. He sent it to me, and I told you, and you’re like, ‘That doesn’t sound very boring’.

ANDI FORNESS

I was like, ‘What’!

NICOLE

Just being called on my stuff right away. I was like, oh, and that didn’t work out, but it was a really good lesson for me and how I was being super perfectionist. I was being very dismissive of people because we hadn’t even gone on a date. I had no idea what this guy was about, but I was already peremptory like, no, not him. Even though he had messaged me back. We’d had a phone call. I remember learning all of these things, and one of the things I learned along the way really, was just start to state my preferences and then to also see what they did with it. And can you talk a little bit about that? You state your preferences, and then what is that drawing in, and what is that showing you about the person you’re talking to?

Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Stay tuned for next week when Andi and I talk about what it was actually like to apply what she taught me. This gets personal, so make sure to come back next week. If you loved what you heard today, do me a favor and leave a five-star rating and review of the show, and screenshot this episode and share it on social media and tag me at Nicole Tsong. Every positive review and share out there makes such a big difference in helping to get the word out. We are so grateful for all of your support. If you’re ready to unlock your own roadmap to a personal hour and 30 days, DM me 30 on Instagram at Nicole Tsong.

Until next time, I’m NicoleTsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.