Are you an Asian-American woman dreaming of feeling worthy and successful no matter what setbacks crop up? Have you ever wondered how some women manage to pivot from challenges by making fast, powerful decisions that make them happy?
In this YCC Alumni Series, I sit down with the remarkable Cecilia Lei, who not only bounced back from burnout, a layoff and divorce, she is now crafting the life she always dreamed of having.
Cecilia shares how she went from feeling pressure to get a full-time job to make everyone else around her happy, to giving herself permission to do the things that made her happy.
She shares what it was like to hit pause, rest, and realize she was craving purpose and clarity in her life. Cecilia opens up about what it took to identify and get in touch with what SHE wants, versus what’s expected of her.
She shares about how she learned to prioritize her own needs and desires (instead of managing others’ emotions) and how that allowed her to invite in so much more grace, kindness, and even fun into her life. And how that also gave her permission to want MORE in her life —like community, a loving partnership, and a vibrant, joyful life.
You do not want to miss this expansive episode!
“You can work to your bone on something, and other people may superficially value it, but then the day the return might not be as satisfying or make you feel as seen as you feel like you should be.”
“It’s this very simple question of, am I above or below the line of choice? Am I doing this out of something that feels really aligned with what feels wholly mine…or is it something that’s really informed by things that really aren’t actually satisfying in the end?”
“If you decide not to take on an extra opportunity or fulfill an obligation that someone else is setting for you, it gives you a moment to recognize, maybe I’ll disappoint someone, but this is something that feels best for me.”
“So many of the choices I was making were fulfilling other people’s idea of who I should be, rather than as I grow and evolve over time, distilling the essence of who I am.”
“I think the biggest revolution is to be joyful and fun in life, because honestly, these days, sometimes it does feel extraordinary and out of the box.”
“The best decisions that you can make are actually the simple choices …I’ve allowed myself to let the rubric of decision making be actually a lot more simple and a lot more intuitive and a lot more aligned with what feels like me.”
NICOLE
Hello friends, and welcome back to another exciting episode of the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, and this is one of my absolute favorite episodes to share with you. Today, I’m chatting with an incredible alumna of Your Clear Calling.
This episode is part of my Your Clear Calling success series, where I sit down with remarkable past students to talk about how their lives have been completely transformed by the program. If you’re unfamiliar with Your Clear Calling, it’s a step-by-step system designed specifically for Asian American corporate leaders, helping them reverse cultural conditioning and step into a thriving, purposeful, and fulfilling life. I am so proud of the women who embark on this transformative journey.
Today, I’m sitting down with Cecilia Lei, who shares how being laid off and going through a divorce gave her an entirely new perspective on life. Through the program, she transitioned from indecision and passivity to making fast, powerful decisions with clarity for her future. Her story is so expansive, and I truly love hearing her reflections. I literally cannot recommend this episode enough—what she shares is so good. Tune in to hear how she made this incredible shift.
As you’re listening, if you find yourself seeing your own story in Cecilia’s experience, if you relate to her journey and feel that same desire to step into confident, decisive action, DM me “POWERFUL” on Instagram @NicoleTsong and let’s chat. I have something for you. Alright, friends—let’s dive into this inspiring conversation!
Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we align with intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth.
I’m your host, Nicole Tsong—an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and a work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.
Each week, I bring you diverse, meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life, sharing insights into what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered, with tangible tips and advice to lead you to your next breakthrough.
Cecilia, welcome to the School of Self-Worth! I’m absolutely delighted to have you here.
CECILIA LEI
Thank you for having me! I’m excited to be chatting with you.
NICOLE
I love that we get to do my YCC Alumni Series—it’s truly one of my favorite things. I get to bring on clients who have worked with me for six months or more and have transformed their lives. Whenever we do these episodes, it feels like a little time travel moment, revisiting where we first met.
We met more than six months ago, maybe seven or eight months, back in Fall 2024. Could you share with everyone what was really challenging for you at that time? What felt difficult in your life?
CECILIA LEI
Yeah! So, we met at the Asian American Journalist Convention in Austin, Texas. I remember you put out a message in the AAJA Slack Channel, asking people if they needed career coaching or support around finding their purpose. You invited them to reach out directly, and that immediately resonated with me.
At that time, I had been laid off from a demanding job for almost a year, maybe nine months or so. I knew I was in burnout recovery, and I had the awareness from therapy and mental health resources to recognize what was happening. I could tell that the stagnation and lack of motivation I felt around job searching was because I was exhausted—fully depleted.
But at the same time, I also knew that I wanted to feel purposeful. Rest for rest’s sake isn’t truly fulfilling unless there’s a direction, a goal. And I didn’t feel like I had that. I was trying to honor what my body and mind needed at that time – rest – without immediately jumping back onto the hamster wheel of work. But I felt lost.
That’s when we met. I told you, Nicole, I need direction. I needed an outside perspective—someone who could help me take stock of where I had been and where I was going, personally and professionally. I needed help synthesizing clarity—not just for a career move, but for my whole life. That’s why I wanted to start the conversation with you.
NICOLE
I remember that moment so vividly. We were sitting in the lobby of this massive hotel—because, for context, the AAJA convention is huge—like 1,500 people.
Something you said really stuck with me—and I think this is true for so many people who are listening. You told me that success had always seemed to land in your lap, and it never felt like you were driving the direction your life was going.
That’s such a common experience for high-achieving, ambitious people. You get incredible opportunities, but sometimes it feels like they just happen—instead of you choosing them deliberately.
Many of my clients face this exact situation—they’re constantly offered amazing opportunities, but when they actually receive them, they wonder: “Is this really what I want?” Do you remember feeling like that back then?
CECILIA LEI
You know, at that point, I really wanted to make sure I was steering my own life—I wanted to feel like I was making intentional choices and being really judicious about where I directed my creative energy and investment.
The layoff became a huge wake-up call for me. It forced me to ask: You can pour everything into a job—work yourself to exhaustion—but is the return truly fulfilling? Does it make me feel seen and valued the way I expect it to?
I started thinking about output vs. return on investment, not just in terms of financial gain, but in creative energy. That job took so much from other areas of my life, and when I finally stepped back, I realized how many things I had put aside in my pursuit of excelling at that role.
It forced me to rethink: What does feeling purposeful and productive actually mean?
NICOLE
Yeah, and that’s something you worked on a lot in Your Clear Calling. That separation between who you are as a person and how your work defines you—and then how that still relates to purpose.
A lot of people struggle with that distinction. They think, “My worth and value are completely tied to my job”, so the job has to be perfect in order for them to feel fulfilled.
But before we dive deeper into that, let’s talk about that first big realization you had when starting YCC. What tangible change did you experience right away?
CECILIA LEI
One of the biggest shifts was this simple but radical concept: “Are you making a choice because you truly want to? Or are you making it out of fear or anxiety?”
So much of decision-making is shaped by conditioning—whether from society, family, or cultural norms. And I learned to ask myself, “Am I above or below the line of choice? Does this decision feel fully mine—something I can take ownership of? Or is it driven by external expectations that ultimately won’t feel fulfilling?”
This framework became an essential barometer for me—whether in big decisions or small ones, like “Do I actually want to work an extra two hours right now?” A common experience for so many women—especially Asian American women—is that we don’t even realize the choices we’re making aren’t truly ours. We assume we should do something without ever questioning it.
That moment early in YCC was so defining—it helped me understand what decisions belonged to me, and what choices I had been making for other people.
NICOLE
That’s such a powerful way to put it. And that principle is really foundational in YCC. It’s something that’s reinforced over and over because it’s not just about knowing the concept—it’s about practicing it every day. Once you started applying it, what changed for you—how did it shift your work, your self-perception, and even that feeling of aimlessness?
CECILIA LEI
The biggest gift from this shift was learning to give myself grace. I became kinder to myself. Instead of automatically saying yes to every opportunity, I learned to pause and recognize my own needs. I realized: Yes, maybe I’ll disappoint someone. But this choice is what’s best for me.
As women—especially Asian American women—we’re not conditioned to prioritize ourselves. We’re taught to fulfill obligations and meet external expectations. But I learned that disappointing others sometimes is okay, and in the long run, it actually benefits my work, relationships, and well-being.
When I started communicating my real needs, not just to others—but also to myself—I felt a shift. I began treating myself like a friend, asking: Is this really what you want? And that simple act of self-inquiry changed everything.
NICOLE
That’s so insightful. And this ties into cultural conditioning, which is a huge challenge for Asian American women in particular. What did you discover about yourself in that area—were there patterns you hadn’t recognized before? Things that had been shaping your choices without you realizing it?
CECILIA LEI
Absolutely. Asian American women—myself included—are conditioned to be responsible for others and to make practical, safe, secure choices, especially if we come from immigrant families. That realization hit me hard. I saw that so many of my life choices weren’t truly mine—they were based on other people’s expectations of who I should be. It became an identity crisis in a way. I had to peel back layers of what I thought I wanted and figure out who I actually was.
There’s grief in that realization—because you start to see just how much of your identity was shaped by external influences. But what was beautiful about this process was that it activated a deep curiosity in me—curiosity about myself.
I started asking: Who am I beyond expectations? The layoff played a huge role in this realization. From the outside, my job looked respectable, influential, and successful. But it didn’t feel fulfilling—even though others admired it.
That was a turning point. I realized that other people’s opinions of my success didn’t matter anymore. Yes, it triggered a bit of an identity crisis, but it also brought relief—because I was no longer curious about what others thought of me. Instead, I was curious about what I thought of myself.
NICOLE
That’s such a beautiful way to describe that journey. Cultural conditioning runs deep, often shaping our perceptions in ways we don’t even realize. For example, if we’ve been taught that being accommodating is an essential trait, we internalize it as part of our identity, believing it defines who we are. But at some point, we realize that this isn’t necessarily true. We don’t have to be accommodating all the time if we don’t want to. We can choose when and how we engage with it—recognizing that saying yes is just as much a choice as saying no. That shift, the ability to intentionally decide how we interact with conditioning rather than accepting it as an unquestioned truth, is incredibly profound.
CECILIA LEI
One thing you really helped me with, Nicole, is learning to release the responsibility of making sure everyone understands where I’m coming from. I think we’ve been conditioned to over-explain, feeling the need to justify every decision with ‘I’m doing this because of XYZ’ or ‘Here’s my rationale for making this choice.’ It’s as if we’re expected to manage other people’s reactions to our lives, carrying the weight of their understanding as if it’s our responsibility. But one of the most freeing realizations I’ve had in this process is recognizing that ‘I am responsible for me, and others are responsible for themselves.’ There’s so much power in that perspective because it allows us to step back and stop trying to control or accommodate everyone else’s expectations.
NICOLE
Yes! ‘I am, and you are.’ That simple distinction shifts everything because it redefines the way we approach interactions. We’re often taught that taking responsibility for how others feel is a sign of care and empathy, but in reality, that burden can become overwhelming.
CECILIA LEI
Exactly. That separation is so powerful—realizing that other people are just as responsible for their own communication and emotions as I am for mine. For so long, I took on the responsibility of managing my interactions, ensuring that what I communicated was always carefully considered and clear. But I’ve learned that I don’t need to shoulder the weight of ensuring others understand me. Instead, I assume they carry the same level of responsibility for themselves, and that shift has been incredibly freeing.
NICOLE
This is such a hard one, and I would say I’m always practicing it myself, too. Society often tells us that we should be responsible for other people’s emotions, and in some cultures, prioritizing the emotional well-being of others is deeply ingrained. Asian American families, for example, emphasize keeping the peace, making sure everyone feels okay, and avoiding unnecessary conflict. But what we really need to embrace is the idea that ‘I have to be okay first.’ Other people choose how they respond to situations, and sometimes, they choose not to be okay. That’s their journey, not ours, and it’s not our responsibility to carry that weight. I know this is something you worked through a lot, especially with family—learning that every person is responsible for their own choices, and you are responsible for yours.
CECILIA LEI
Right! It’s almost a losing game if you’re constantly managing other people’s reactions and communication. You end up doing so much extra emotional labor, and yet, no one really acknowledges or appreciates it, especially if they’ve come to expect it from you. Whether it’s being the peacekeeper, the one who smooths things over, or the person responsible for ensuring harmony, it quickly turns into an endless cycle. At some point, I realized that it’s simply not worth it.
NICOLE
So true. Okay, let’s bring it back to career—because you had a huge realization at the end of YCC. You came in saying you wanted to know your purpose, to have clarity on where you were headed. Toward the end, what were the biggest shifts in your awareness?
CECILIA LEI
Yeah—I would say I haven’t landed in one fixed place, but I’ve learned to honor that. Life is fluid, always in motion. Not working full-time for over a year was such a trip for me because I’ve always placed so much value on being productive, self-sufficient, and independent. Even though I kept busy with freelance work, I never fully allowed myself to dive into a traditional job search.
I remember us talking about my next steps, and you said something that completely stopped me in my tracks. You said, ‘Cecilia, I don’t actually think you want a full-time job.’ It wasn’t about being unprepared or needing more time to rest—it was the deeper truth that, at my core, I didn’t desire it. That hit me hard because admitting that to myself felt terrifying. It meant acknowledging that I didn’t want the thing that seemed the most stable, secure, and responsible, and that realization became a wake-up call. I needed to start designing a life aligned with how I wanted to feel—not just what I wanted to do.
Right now, a full-time job doesn’t feel aligned for me because it takes all your creative energy and channels it into an employer who gives you a paycheck. And yet, that paycheck can vanish in an instant. I realized—this is a moment to bet on myself rather than betting on an employer.
NICOLE
That’s such a powerful realization. It really is. And it’s a huge step because so many people are told to chase the steady paycheck as a form of security, especially coming from immigrant families, where stability is emphasized above all else. But you recognized that traditional security wasn’t actually serving you, and in doing so, you created space to make different choices.
And this may be just for now—it doesn’t mean Cecilia will never have a full-time job again. It just means that right now, in April 2025, this is the right choice for you. And that’s what YCC is all about—figuring out the best decision for this moment, rather than feeling locked into one path forever.
CECILIA LEI
Exactly! It’s not that I don’t want a full-time job; it’s that I don’t want it for the usual reasons. Most people chase full-time work for the paycheck, stability, and benefits, but those aren’t what would truly fulfill me. So if I ever take on a full-time job, it will be for reasons that align with ME—not just because it’s the expected next step. It’s about clarifying the real criteria for making a career choice instead of labeling something as simply good or bad.
NICOLE
Yeah, I love that clarification. And you also had some other big realizations—things you had never quite admitted to yourself before. ‘She’s smiling because she knows—she only fully admitted them a couple of months ago!’ Would you mind sharing? What were some of those things you had always wavered on or had never allowed yourself to fully want?
CECILIA LEI
Yeah… I went through a pretty traumatic divorce. It was a massive life change—like the rug was pulled out from under me. That relationship was everything I had been investing in up until that point. I had been building a future with this person, investing in a life together, in the dream of having a family, a partner to grow with, to challenge me, to make me a better person. And then suddenly, it was all gone.
That experience still makes me question what marriage really means. Divorce forced me to reflect—why did I want to get married in the first place? Now that marriage had failed in such a spectacular, traumatic way, I had to examine what that dream truly meant to me.
I’ve realized that I can shape my life in a way that feels good, rather than being weighed down by deep obligations and overly serious choices. I’ve lived that way before, and it didn’t lead me where I wanted to go. Now, I’m learning that dreams can come from a place of lightness, joy, and whimsy—instead of overthinking every single step.
NICOLE
Yeah, we are so conditioned to overthink everything. Instead of recognizing that we have a choice—you can approach life through the lens of anxiety and analysis, or you can approach it through joy and fun. And for a lot of us, that second option feels unnatural, because we were never really taught that joy was okay.
Then, when you look at the state of the world, constantly flooded with negativity from the internet and social media, it can feel like joy doesn’t even exist anymore. But honestly? I believe joy is the biggest revolution. Choosing joy and fun in life is powerful—because sometimes, the simplest, most radical thing you can say is, ‘I want my life to feel good.’ And embracing that? That’s a profound shift.
CECILIA LEI
Right, right. And it’s actually such a simple concept, but life can make you forget that. Some of the best decisions are the simplest—if you strip away the noise and outside expectations. Since YCC and our work together, I’ve started letting my decision-making process be much simpler, more intuitive, and deeply aligned with what feels true to me.
And honestly, one of the best unexpected outcomes of this shift has been confidence-building. When you make a decision that’s rooted in authenticity—when it feels right and it actually works—you get this incredible boost of self-trust. It’s that moment of realizing, ‘Yes, I have the tools and awareness to make the best choices for myself.’
Because life can so easily make you doubt that, especially when you experience failure—or when others label something as a failure. When something falls apart, it’s easy to spiral into, ‘Maybe I’m flawed. Maybe I don’t actually know how to make good decisions.’ But this process has been a total rerouting for me—bringing me back to myself.
NICOLE
That’s so powerful. I love everything you shared, Cecilia, because I know the people listening will really hear themselves in your story. So thank you for being so authentic.
I’d love to hear a little bit about the community aspect of YCC—what was it like for you to connect with other women who were navigating similar experiences?
CECILIA LEI
Honestly? Incredible. That’s one of the biggest reasons I felt so committed to YCC—having a weekly space to be open, vulnerable, and deeply connected with other women.
And what’s really interesting? YCC actually pushed me to build more real-life connections with women, too. In life, we have groups of female friends, but YCC created a structure where we could come together specifically around our professional lives, which is rare. We’re used to opening up with friends about personal things, but when it comes to perfectionism, self-doubt, and career anxiety, we rarely get the chance to share in a professional context.
Women everywhere struggle with these internal battles, but we don’t talk about them in the spaces where we really need to. And what I realized was that when you find your people, when you share openly, it actually bolsters your personal confidence.
The biggest takeaway was this: You are not alone. Everything you’re feeling? Other women are feeling it too—and they’re likely struggling in solitude, just like you.
And so YCC started as a professional space but quickly became deeply personal. Now, I’ve actually tried to recreate that sense of community in my own life—building connections with women in my industry and beyond, realizing that so many of us want to connect on multiple levels. That was a real gift you cultivated for us, Nicole.
NICOLE
Thank you for sharing that. I love hearing how you’ve carried that into your own life, because I agree—it’s something missing for so many women, especially in professional spaces, where we’re all trying to appear a certain way instead of just connecting authentically. So thank you for being that—for doing that in the world.
Well, before we wrap up—was there anything I didn’t ask that you’d still like to share? Any final thoughts on YCC you’d love people to hear?
CECILIA LEI
You know, before I committed to YCC, I really went back and forth. Because honestly? It’s so easy to say no to opportunities like this. We don’t often prioritize ourselves as the first investment in our lives. We invest in our careers, our families, our partners—everything and everyone else—but rarely in ourselves.
I had to challenge myself and ask, ‘Do I want to invest financially in just me?’ That was new for me, not a choice I was used to making. But through our conversations, I realized: Yes—take a bet on yourself. Give yourself the space, the structure, and the accountability to take ownership of your life.
It might feel unusual if you’re new to YCC—or anything like it. Because at the end of the day, the validation and accountability don’t come from external sources. They come from you. It’s a new way of committing to yourself. And for me, saying yes to YCC was a revelatory decision, a statement that said: I want to do something for myself. Because I believe in my own growth. I had never made a decision like that before.
NICOLE
Yeah, well, I loved watching your growth—from that first moment when you were searching for direction to where you are now, clear and confident. And knowing that the work is always ongoing—I can feel it in you.
You were so dedicated throughout the process. You showed up to calls, put in the work, and when you were struggling, you shared that openly. That kind of commitment to a coaching cohort is so powerful. Really awesome.
Alright, we always wrap up our podcast interviews with a few fast-action questions. Are you up for it?
CECILIA LEI
Sure! Of course.
NICOLE
Okay, first question—what was the last thing you watched on TV?
CECILIA LEI
Oh, White Lotus—like everyone else! I was so into it, and now I want to book a resort vacation somewhere. Not a dramatic White Lotus life, though—just a relaxing one!
—
NICOLE
Amazing. Okay—what’s on your nightstand?
CECILIA LEI
Hmm, let’s see—earplugs, because I always sleep with them. Two books I’m halfway through. And… probably some dust I need to clean.
NICOLE
I feel like there’s a little dust on my nightstand too! Alright, what was the last new thing you tried?
CECILIA LEI
Oh—dating. Dating feels new because I’ve always been in long-term relationships, back-to-back. Right now, though? I’m not approaching it with a ‘I need to find someone’ mindset. Instead, I’m making choices based on what feels fun. And honestly? It’s been really fun. This time, I’m looking at companionship differently—it’s not as serious, and that feels so much better.
NICOLE
I love that. I remember when I was dating, and I had this very serious goal—I wanted to meet someone for a long-term relationship. But my coach at the time told me, ‘What if you just went on dates to have fun?’ And I was like, ‘What?! Just have fun?!’
But honestly, that shift in energy completely changed how I approached dating. Now, my partner Michael, is so fun—and that’s actually such an important quality in a relationship. So I love that you’re leaning into joy—you’re going to attract the right energy because of it.
CECILIA LEI
Right! And one of the best pieces of advice I’ve heard about dating is—you date to get to know yourself better. Yes, it’s about chemistry and finding alignment with someone, but it’s also about learning more about yourself in the process.
That feels new for me. It’s almost like dating is a way to experiment with self-discovery. And I think that’s so different from how most people view dating—usually, it’s curiosity about the other person. But I’m centering curiosity for myself this time.
NICOLE
That’s awesome! And if you haven’t already, go back and listen to the YCC episodes with my dating coach, Andy Fornas—she shares so many golden nuggets about how to approach dating. So, if you’re out there dating, those episodes are for you!
Alright, last question: what are your top three most-used emojis?
CECILIA LEI
Oh—okay. The shrugging woman emoji—I use that all the time. Probably the upside-down smiley face. And… the laughing emoji—even though Gen Z makes fun of us millennials for using it! But honestly? It’s so useful. So don’t make fun of us, Gen Z—we’re keeping the laughing emoji alive!
NICOLE
Honestly Cecilia, what a pleasure to have you. Thank you for sharing your journey so powerfully today. I know it will help so many women to hear your story, and I feel so honored to have done this work with you.
So—thank you so much for being here!
CECILIA LEI
Thank YOU, Nicole. Thank you for always creating space for people—to help us go on these journeys of self-discovery. It’s such a gift that you give all of us. I appreciate you so much.
NICOLE
Thank you for tuning into today’s episode! Before you go—if you’re a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you. Just DM me “QUIZ” on Instagram @NicoleTsong, and let’s chat!
We read every single note we get from you about how this podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know—we appreciate each and every one of you.
Until next time—I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is The School of Self-Worth.
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