Navigating Shame and Finances Post-Divorce with Clover Lam

• Journey of Self-Worth: [00:02:35]
• Influence of Childhood:. [00:06:34]
• The Role of Shame: [00:11:05]
• Managing Parental Expectations: [00:22:22]
• Financial Independence Post-Divorce: [00:27:06]
• The Importance of Authentic Self: [00:29:55]

“I was divorced 10 years ago and I went on that spiritual awakening journey of trying first to fix myself in every way.” – Clover Lam

“In the self-development world of helping yourself, in health, in money, in relationships, that has to be based on a foundation of self-worth.” – Clover Lam

“Our authentic self knows the truth, and however, we go through life with all these conditionings, then we forget who we are inside.” – Clover Lam

“Sometimes we have to survive a little bit because people always say, like, oh, you want to thrive and stuff like that, but right out of divorce, you have to take care of your finances.” – Clover Lam

“Feel it and free it.” – Clover Lam

NICOLE  

Hello and welcome back to another episode of The School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong.  

Today’s conversation is so deep, expansive, and also so much fun. I am incredibly excited to introduce you to Clover Lam. She helps divorced millennial women take back control of their finances and thrive in their lives. She shared so many insightful things, so definitely stay tuned for that.  

But beyond her expertise, I really loved hearing about her own extraordinary Journey of Self Worth. I can’t wait for you to learn more from her.  

Before we get started, if you’re a high-achieving Asian American leader who wants the exact, step-by-step process to permanently reverse cultural conditioning so you can step into your power and be seen and visible at work, DM me the word “Power” on Instagram at Nicole Tsong. I’ll have some details for you there.  

Okay, friends, let’s dive into this expansive conversation. Welcome to The School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life.  

Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong—an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a best-selling author of three books and a work-life balance expert. I help ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.  

Every week, I’ll bring you diverse, meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life. Together, we’ll explore what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every single day. Each episode is thoughtfully crafted to leave you feeling empowered, with tangible tips and advice to lead you to your next breakthrough.

Clover, welcome to The School of Self-Worth. I’m so happy to have you here with us.  

CLOVER LAM  

Thank you so much! I’m so honored to be here today.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, well, your story was so compelling to me. We connected on social media, as so many of us do these days, and I was really intrigued by what you teach and share. My favorite way to start these conversations is by exploring the self-worth journey—because everyone has one, and they’re often quite extensive.  

So, if you wouldn’t mind, could you jump in and share the self-worth journey that led you to working with women on money, particularly post-divorce?  

CLOVER LAM  

Yeah, absolutely! I was divorced ten years ago and went on a spiritual awakening journey, starting by trying to fix myself in every possible way.  

When I got divorced, I wasn’t given a specific reason why we were divorcing. That lack of clarity was so hurtful to my psyche and self-esteem. It made me search for meaning, which led me to believe that, since there was no clear reason, everything must be wrong with me. So, I decided to fix everything about myself.  

NICOLE  

You took it super personally—like, this person doesn’t want to be married to me anymore.  

CLOVER LAM  

Exactly. I recalled all the little snide comments he’d made about me and internalized them, soaking in this lack of self-worth at the start of my divorce journey. I really went down the rabbit hole of self-help and self-development.  

Back then—ten years ago—Tony Robbins and other big names in self-help were the mainstream go-to resources. It was like Eat, Pray, Love.  

NICOLE  

What?  

CLOVER LAM  

You know, which section of the bookstore does she go to? The self-help section, right? That’s exactly what I did.  

After about five or six years of that journey, I looked like I was making progress on the surface. I was traveling the world, having new experiences that felt good, but deep down, my self-worth hadn’t really healed.  

Then the pandemic happened, and I was laid off for a year and a half. That time of reflection brought everything to light. I created a video podcast called Unconventional Asians, because I always felt unconventional myself.  

Through that, I attracted life coaches and spiritual people. It was an unconventional way to showcase our vulnerabilities as Asians. I even got coached live on the podcast by these incredible people.  

I broke down on camera—I did all the things people usually do in private—but I did them publicly to give other Asian people permission to be flawed. That’s what brought me to truly healing and discovering what it means to have genuine self-worth. And then, from that space of authenticity—of who you are as a person, that really connects you to your truth—the rest follows in self-development. In the world of self-development, whether it’s about helping yourself in health, money, or relationships, everything has to be based on a foundation of self-worth. Because I’ve been on this journey for the past ten years, starting from the beginning of my divorce, I now teach other women to do the same.

NICOLE  

So cool. Thank you for sharing. I have a lot of questions already because I want to know more about what you teach. But honestly, I’m really curious about the self-worth piece and what you discovered.  

I’m also divorced, and I’ve been on this journey myself. So I’m curious—what did you find out for yourself about self-worth? Was it missing even before you got married? Was it reflected in the choice of person you picked?  

That’s something I work on with many of my clients who are dating—looking at patterns where they’ve given their self-worth away or tried to dominate to compensate for not feeling worthy. Those kinds of things. What did you discover for yourself?  

I’m sure it started before you got married, but what did you notice, and what did you figure out?  

CLOVER LAM  

Yeah, it always stems from childhood. Now that I’m doing the healing work, I’ve realized that my father wound and mother wound were the two primary triggers. Those wounds led to the choice of partners I picked, which ultimately resulted in the relationship not working out. It led to people-pleasing behaviors and losing myself throughout the marriage.  

The father wound, in particular, has been so interesting because I’ve only recently healed it. I’d say it was the root of everything that blocked me from abundance and receiving love. It was so daunting that I really procrastinated on addressing it.  

I finally realized that during my childhood, there were several incidents where my father couldn’t show up for me in the way I needed him to. I internalized those moments to mean that I don’t deserve help or love. As a result, I decided I had to be my own protector and provider. I became hyper-independent and leaned into my masculine energy, doing everything myself.  

Then I attracted my ex-husband, who, on the surface, appeared very masculine and was a provider. He was doing amazing things for me, but toward the end, it felt like I wasn’t enough.  

I had this subconscious narrative that I needed to be a perfect woman: providing for the household by climbing higher in the workforce, being nurturing, and embodying the ideal mix of femininity and independence.  

That belief dictated that my worthiness of love and abundance was tied to being that perfect person. I only recently realized how deeply those blocks were rooted and how they prevented me from truly receiving love and abundance.  

NICOLE  

Wow, that’s so interesting. For me, a lot of my journey was about emotional availability. I thought my ex-husband was the one who wasn’t emotionally available, but really, I wasn’t emotionally available either.  

I learned that pattern growing up with my father. Being of Chinese background, it’s not exactly a cultural norm for men to be emotionally available, right? That’s especially true in Chinese culture.  

I grew up learning to shut down emotionally, and it took a lot for me to understand how to show up differently in my next relationship. But it’s fascinating how we have to go back and disentangle from what we learned as kids.  

You interpret things one way growing up, but then you get into a relationship without making any changes. It’s only when you’re deep in a marriage—or going through a divorce—that you stop to sort through everything.  

Do you find that many of the women you work with are also reflecting on these patterns? Are they coming to you after a divorce, or are they already working with you in the middle of it?  

CLOVER LAM  

Mostly after the divorce—usually after the first year.  

NICOLE  

So, you help them emotionally heal and also move forward in other areas of life, right?  

CLOVER LAM  

Exactly. I guide them to focus on their overall wellness: money, health, relationships, and even dating again. Since the divorce has already happened, we concentrate on what they can do moving forward.  

NICOLE  

Do you find a common theme among women regarding self-worth and the reasons behind their divorces or the relationships they’ve had?  

CLOVER LAM  

Yes, that’s a great question. I think a lot of it ties back to conditioning, particularly for Asian women.  

We’ve often been raised to be submissive, people pleasers, and perfectionists. It’s so ingrained in us that we internalize it and take on an overwhelming sense of responsibility.  

That weight often makes us feel like everything is our fault or that we’re not good enough. And because we’re taught that an A+ is just “average,” we’re constantly striving, stuck on a hamster wheel, always asking, “What can I do to be more worthy?”  

NICOLE  

Yeah. You know, you talking about this brings up something I think is a difficult distinction—especially for high achievers and Asian women. Being hard on yourself is not the same as being self-responsible, you know?  

I used to always think that being hard on myself meant I was growing, improving, or making myself better. But actually, it was just me being hard on myself. It closed me off from different ways of seeing myself, from my skill sets, and from my authentic self.  

When we’re self-responsible, we can say, “Oh, wow, I did do that. I didn’t realize I was doing that. Now I’m going to try to change that pattern,” instead of saying, “Oh, Nicole, you were a terrible spouse. You weren’t emotionally available, and that’s why your marriage fell apart.”  

There’s such a clear distinction between those approaches. I’m curious—how do you think about this, and how do you work with women on that particular topic?  

CLOVER LAM  

I think the major thing blocking self-responsibility is shame. Shame is a form of conditioning—from society, family, and other sources. Recognizing and being aware that this shame might not truly belong to you is an important first step. Separating shame from ourselves can be very hard at first.  

I like to look at things in three sections: the mind, the body, and the soul. Our minds create narratives and stories. Our bodies store emotions. And our souls—our authentic selves—know the truth.  

As we navigate life, conditioned by these external forces, we often forget who we truly are inside. To separate ourselves from these influences, we can use tools like journaling, meditation, or other reflective practices to remember our authentic selves. These tools help us separate the ego from what is happening objectively.  

It’s a process—slowly untangling the narratives and removing the emotional charge they carry. Once that charge is removed, it becomes easier to take action and change the patterns. Because when you’re in the thick of it, you really can’t see the forest for the trees.  

NICOLE  

Totally! “Removing the charge” is such a great way to describe it. When you’re in the intensity of that emotion, you’re just freaking out, and you can’t actually see what you need to see.  

I’m curious—do you find that divorce, in particular, brings up a specific type of shame for Asian American women?  

CLOVER LAM  

Oh, absolutely. Divorce is so taboo. It’s becoming more normalized now, but ten years ago, when I got divorced, it definitely wasn’t.  

For sure, I carried a deep sense of shame, and my clients often feel the same. But having conversations like this and finding supportive communities helps make it feel less isolating. It removes the charge of, “Hey, maybe this isn’t as bad as I think it is.” Together, we can navigate it.  

NICOLE  

Yeah. I feel like that kind of shame can also keep women stuck in relationships. They worry about what their families will say or think if they get divorced. It’s not just personal shame—it feels like they’re bringing shame onto their families, too. That can be so intense.  

CLOVER LAM  

Exactly. Part of the work is being able to separate yourself from that shame and sit in the discomfort, rather than people-pleasing your family.  

NICOLE  

Right.  

CLOVER LAM  

It’s tough, but it’s part of the work.  

NICOLE  

I think that’s like a constant background noise for many Asian American women. Sometimes they don’t even recognize it’s there, but it’s dictating and driving so many decisions.  

For example, I work with women more on career-related issues, but these family concerns always come up. If someone wants to take a career turn that’s unconventional or doesn’t initially make as much money, they might feel like, “Oh, my parents won’t approve; they’ll be stressed out.”  

Instead of confidently saying, “This is what I want, and it works for me,” that family peace hovers in the background, shaping their decisions.  

CLOVER LAM  

That’s so true. Actually, I just navigated something like that with my dad about a week ago. I decided to quit my job of 20 years, move to Bali, and dive full-time into my business.  

The generation before us doesn’t really understand how online coaching works. For my dad, it doesn’t feel tangible, so it doesn’t feel safe. On top of that, I told him I’m moving to Southeast Asia, and he immediately associated that with recent news about kidnappings in Thailand. He lumped everything together, thinking it’s all dangerous.  

Over the years, because of resentment, we hadn’t talked much. I don’t think he understood how much hyper-independence I’d cultivated in a good way. It gave me so many skill sets.  

I’ve traveled to 47 countries, done a lot of solo travel, and I know what I’m doing. So, I told him, “Dad, I know you’re coming from a good place. You want to protect me and want the best for me.” Acknowledging that helped soothe his anxiety because it’s true—our parents want the best for us.  

But millennials have so many more resources than our boomer parents did. They’re kind of stuck in time, thinking life works the way it used to. For them, the world feels unsafe. For us, though, it’s about realizing our fullest potential. It’s such an opposite way of seeing things.  

I broke it down for him, and eventually, we came to an understanding. I promised him, “Dad, I’ll be safe. If anything feels dangerous, I’ll leave immediately.”  

It’s interesting how we now have to soothe our parents to make them feel better, while still being responsible for making the best choices for ourselves. And we have to remember that our parents are human, too—they don’t always know what’s best for us. They might actually not know everything. And what they suggest sometimes is not necessarily the best for us. 

I like to use this example: I have good friends who are nomads—they travel a lot. One time, they stayed at an Airbnb with a house cat. The cat was adorable, and one day it picked up a live mouse and dropped it on their bed as a gift!  

Imagine everyone freaking out—a live mouse was jumping around the bed. Eventually, they managed to shoo the mouse out of the house, but the cat was so disappointed.  

It’s kind of like when your parents give you a gift that they think is the best for you, based on what they can see. But you’re sitting there thinking, “Oh my gosh, this isn’t working. In fact, this is freaking me out!” You just want to get rid of it. But then your parents get disappointed, and you feel bad. So you suck it up and accept the gift, even though it’s not actually good for you.  

Being able to discern the difference and sit with the discomfort of disappointing people—that’s the work we’re doing.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, I love that analogy. It’s so true—our parents always want the best for us.  

For my parents, security and safety were top priorities. They immigrated here, and I often think about my mom. She moved to America when she was 27. I can’t imagine moving to a country where I didn’t speak the language well and then living there for the rest of my life. It seems so insane to me.  

But it helps me feel so much compassion for why she might feel anxious. My dad, too—he’s a child of war. Both of them have been through so much in their lives while trying to make it work in a new country.  

For them, security and stability were everything. But our generation has had more security, so we’re less grounded in worry and panic about those things. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that, though, because we still want to make our parents happy.  

I remember when I was 16, I wanted to major in paleontology—dinosaurs! My dad immediately said no. He told me there were no jobs in paleontology, and I couldn’t believe it because I thought studying dinosaurs was the coolest thing.  

Even though I thought it was so unfair, I ended up switching majors a few times before settling on something he approved of. Looking back, it’s funny, but it really illustrates that 16-year-old desire to make your parents happy.  

Thank you for sharing your story. For you, how did you get to the point of deciding to make this move? And how did you think about your parents in that process, even before having the conversation with them?  

CLOVER LAM  

It actually took me five years to make that decision. It might have looked spontaneous to my dad, but I had to explain that it wasn’t impulsive at all.  

He thought I hadn’t calculated the risks, but I’d thought everything through. I did all the math. In fact, I’m financially independent and won’t need to work when I retire in Bali—I’m completely set.  

I’m surrounded by nomadic friends, so this lifestyle isn’t new to me. As a flight attendant for 20 years, traveling is second nature. I have all the skills and resources I need, and I’ve also built my business. But five years ago, I wasn’t ready emotionally.  

What blocked me back then were my emotional fears—hearing the voices of my parents in my head saying I’d starve or be homeless. They never actually said those things, but those were the stories I created for myself.  

I felt paralyzed by fear—scared to leave my comfort zone of safety and certainty. Through healing work, I separated myself from those fears and looked at things practically. I realized I’d be fine.  

It was my ego—trying to keep me small and in the familiar—that made me believe I’d regret stepping out of my comfort zone. But the truth is, if I’d kept doing the same thing until I was 65, I’d have known exactly how my life would turn out.  

Taking this risk to live my best life in Bali, even if it didn’t work out, would still be worth it. I’d have expanded my horizons and tried something different.  

I’m adventurous at heart, and this decision is true to my values. Toward the end, my dad said something sweet. He told me, “Our home is always open to you. If things don’t work out, you can always come back and get a job.”  

It was kind, but in my mind, I’d rather die than go back to that. The point of me doing this is to not go back there. It took me five years to get out of that loop, and I’m not going back. I understand that survival is the way my parents know, but I’m focused on thriving now instead of just surviving. It’s just a different narrative.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, that’s so powerful. I love how clear you are—like, no way, I’m not doing that. It’s not a backup plan.  

CLOVER LAM  

Exactly!  But no, that’s not my value. We are so different. Having that clarity and separating yourself from your parents and their values—it’s like the mice analogy. What they think is the best for you isn’t necessarily the best for you.  

Understanding what your authentic values are gives you the compass you need for the next chapter of your life.  

NICOLE  

Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that so powerfully. I think this is something a lot of people grapple with, even when considering a job change. What you’re doing is bold—you’re moving to Bali and leaving your job—but for many people listening, just thinking about a career pivot or shift can bring up a lot of fear and terror. Thank you for sharing that journey.  

I’m curious—since you also work with women on the finances of divorce, which can be so challenging, could you share how you start to guide them through that?  Sometimes women don’t even know much about their finances during their marriage. Are there common threads you see? Are they just freaked out?  

For example, when I got divorced, I wanted to keep my house, but it was a house we paid for with two incomes. I had to figure out how to afford it on just mine, which was so stressful. Even though I had some resources from the divorce, I was a business owner. I needed to generate enough income to pay for a house in Seattle. That was a big challenge.  How do you help women navigate that post-divorce?  

CLOVER LAM  

The first thing I tell women is: You’re not too stupid to manage your own money.  

There’s this narrative that finances are intimidating and that men should handle them. Many women come out of a divorce thinking they’re not smart enough to manage their own finances. The truth is, the financial world is designed to feel intimidating—it’s full of confusing jargon. That’s intentional, to make people rely on financial managers and pay their fees.  

So, the first step is addressing that mindset. It’s not that you’re not smart—it’s that the system is designed to confuse you. Once we acknowledge that, I break things down into simpler terms.  

We start by looking at what they have: their net worth, liabilities, assets. We lay everything out so they have a clear picture of their starting point. Then, we examine their values with money.  

What do you want out of this next chapter of your life? Decisions should be made from that place, grounded in your values. There’s so much conflicting advice about saving or investing that it can feel overwhelming. Knowing your “true north” is critical—it grounds you in every financial decision.  

Next, we address emotional blocks. Money represents safety, after all—it’s what puts food on your table. Once we’ve tackled those emotional aspects, we create a sustainable plan that aligns with their authentic selves.  It’s like dieting. If you set up a financial plan that’s unrealistic, you won’t stick to it. You need something sustainable and personal.  

NICOLE  

So really, the first steps are awareness—understanding your current financial picture—and defining what you want to create. I know you also do abundance work with your clients. How do you help them dream bigger—like imagining new income streams, dating again, or reshaping their lives?  

CLOVER LAM  

I start by helping them unlearn the crap—letting go of everything that isn’t true to them.  Once the fog clears, their authentic selves begin to take shape. From there, we can build a plan.  

Here’s how I see it: Imagine you’re born as a perfect diamond—radiant, resilient, and pure. Then life happens. Pain comes, and you protect yourself by creating coping mechanisms. These become layers of shields around your diamond. The more pain you experience, the thicker the shields become, and the less of your true self remains visible.  

When something heartbreaking happens, like a divorce, it’s an opportunity. It cracks those shields open and forces you to ask, “Am I on the right path?” I believe these moments are the universe’s way of steering us back to our authentic selves.  

Through this process, we peel back the layers of those shields. It’s not about searching for who you are—you’re already there. It’s about uncovering it all.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, that’s super powerful. I feel like divorce, you know, before I went through it, I always thought of it as just this total breakdown—like, life is over, I can’t deal anymore, all of that.  But now, I feel like it can actually be a time of huge awakening and insight—discovering what you really want in your life and choosing a different path.

I had that experience, and it seems like you’re expressing that, too. I imagine the women who come to you are looking for that as well. They’re not thinking, “My life is over.” Instead, they’re saying, “No, I want my life to be different, and my divorce is teaching me something about that.”  

CLOVER LAM  

Yeah. I always say that my divorce was the best thing that ever happened to me because it allowed me to come back to my authentic self.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, exactly. It’s like, now you truly know your authentic self in a completely different way. You get to move to Bali and do the things that are really true to you.  

CLOVER LAM  

Exactly, and it’s so powerful because nobody can take that away from you. Even if you enter a new relationship, you’re so solid in who you are that it’s not scary anymore if something unexpected happens again.  You know what your dream life looks like, and you’re capable of creating it for yourself. That sense of empowerment is so invaluable. That’s why I say my divorce was the best thing—it gave me a life skill that will always stay with me.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, absolutely. What would you say is your top tip or advice for someone in the final stages of divorce who’s trying to figure out what’s next? What should they start doing right now?  

CLOVER LAM  

Great question. I think the first step really depends on where they are in their healing journey.  At the beginning, you might need to focus on surviving. People often talk about thriving right away, but immediately after divorce, you need to sort out practicalities—your finances, your living arrangements, and all those logistics.  

Once those are in place, that’s when healing and thriving can begin. So don’t shame yourself if you’re in that survival stage. It’s about taking things one step at a time, knowing you will get there. And remember, there are women who’ve been through this journey before you—you’re not alone.  

Another key thing is to ask for support. I think shame often keeps us silent, especially for Asian women and others who feel they can’t talk about failure. But it’s not true! Honestly, so many women are getting divorced right now—it’s becoming more normalized.  

NICOLE  

That’s so true. I think one thing I didn’t understand before is how long divorce takes. It took much longer than I expected, and I found the process so tedious. There’s the legal side of divorce, which is a lot on its own, but then there are all these emotional pieces happening simultaneously.  

I’m reading a book by Maggie Smith about her divorce—I think it’s called Keep Moving or something similar. She does a beautiful job capturing the emotional stakes of every moment, and it made me feel like I was reliving my own experience.  

What you’re saying about not shaming yourself is so important. There are so many ways we can be hard on ourselves. I remember feeling ashamed about money, about not wanting my situation to be what it was, about being frustrated and taking it out on my business—which I was growing at the time.  

There are just so many layers to this process. Even when you get to the other side, it can still come up. I felt shame around dating, for example—like, “Oh my gosh, here I am, back to dating. I thought I’d never have to do this again!”  Swiping on Bumble, going on dates, explaining that I was getting divorced—it all brought up its own form of shame. There are just so many stages to this process. I love how you’re addressing that.  

CLOVER LAM  

Yeah, shame is tricky because it often spirals. It’s like, you feel shame for feeling shame, and you can’t get out of it. The first step to untangle it is to stop and recognize what’s happening. Ask yourself, “What am I doing? Why am I feeling this way?”  

Let yourself feel the shame, because you have to feel it to free it. It’s like that saying, “What you resist persists.” When you acknowledge the shame and let yourself feel it, the layers begin to fall away. Then, you can access the emotions underneath and get to the root of it.  

NICOLE  

I love that—“Feel it to free it.” That’s such a great tip for everyone out there.  

Clover, this has been such a powerful conversation. Thank you so much for being here with us. I loved hearing everything you had to share.  

Now it’s time for our rapid-fire questions! Are you ready? They’re straightforward but always fun. Let’s start with this: What’s on your nightstand?  

CLOVER LAM  

On my nightstand, I have crystals. Black quartz, rose quartz, and… what’s it called? It just escaped me—amethyst!  They’re helpful for dreams, sleep, and things like that. Oh, and I also have an LED face mask.  

I’m spiritual, but also very practical at the same time.  

NICOLE  

I’m totally the same way. That’s awesome—I love it! So, what’s the last thing you watched on TV?  

CLOVER LAM  

Oh, that’s a tough one because I haven’t watched TV… or, like, any social media… or any kind of content lately.  

NICOLE  

Yeah, it could be content! I actually don’t watch TV either. Or it could be the last book you read—either works.  

CLOVER LAM  

Well, the last piece of content I watched was a YouTube channel about how to live in Bali.  

NICOLE  

That’s perfect—you’re building up for your move! That’s so fun. Okay, you’re about to embark on something new, but this next question is: When was the last time you tried something new, and what was it? Although you might already be in the middle of something new right now.  

CLOVER LAM  

This might not sound very polished, but I’ll be authentic—I recently went to a spin class!  The funny thing is, I’m not that great on a bicycle. I only learned how to ride one maybe two or three years ago, as an adult at 37 years old. And because I’m very athletic, people are always so surprised by that.  

To me, spinning sounded like being on a bicycle, so I thought it wouldn’t be fun. I imagined my legs hurting, but I challenged myself to go anyway.  

I was lucky—it was a great class, and the instructor’s energy was amazing. I literally felt like I was having an endorphin high—it blew my mind. Because the bike is stationary, balance wasn’t an issue, and I could just focus on the movement.  

It might actually be my favorite activity of all time now.  

NICOLE  

That’s amazing! I wish I felt like that.  

CLOVER LAM  

Honestly, I’ve heard most people don’t feel that way. I was like, “Maybe it’s just me, but hey, I’ll take it!”  

NICOLE  

You should totally take that—it’s so fun. I love it! Okay, last question—it’s super straightforward: What are your top three most-used emojis?  

CLOVER LAM  

Ooh, the face with the little hearts, the one with the tongue sticking out, and the winky face.  

NICOLE  

Winky face—awesome! Clover, what’s the best way for people to reach you and learn more about what you do?  

CLOVER LAM  

You can find me on Instagram at Authentic Abundance or on my website at authentic-abundance.com.  

NICOLE  

Thank you so much for being here and sharing your authentic self with all of us. It’s so inspiring. I’m excited to follow your journey as you move to Bali—I can’t wait to see and hear more! I’m sure you’ll be sharing updates as you go, and it’s just such an exciting time for you. Now, you’ve got a couple of months to prepare, which is amazing, right?  

CLOVER LAM  

Yeah, it’s perfect. I’m working on building out my coaching programs and offerings in the background. Eventually, I want to host retreats in Bali for divorced women—it’s the perfect place for that.  

NICOLE  

Absolutely. I’m so grateful you came here and shared your wisdom with our listeners. Everyone, make sure to follow Clover and see what she’s up to.  

Thank you so much for being on The School of Self-Worth!  

CLOVER LAM  

Thank you so much for having me—it was such a fun conversation.  

NICOLE  

Thank you so much for tuning in to today’s episode!  

Before you go, if you’re a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I have a 72-second assessment for you. Make sure to DM me the word “quiz” on Instagram at nicoletsong.  

Thank you for listening. We read every note you send us about how this podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you.  

Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is The School of Self-Worth.