Dear White Women: Breaking Down Barriers with Misasha Suzuki Graham

• Multi-Ethnic Identity Formation [00:03:00-00:04:44] 
• Modern Parenting Approaches for Multi-Ethnic Children [00:07:17-00:08:11] 
• The Story Behind “Dear White Women” [00:16:11-00:19:09] 
• Three Key Observations in White Circles [00:17:38-00:19:09] 
• Progress in DEI Conversations [00:23:21-00:24:51] 
• Impact Through Small Actions [00:29:03-00:29:46]

“Progress is not linear… Like we will take three steps forward, we will take two steps back. And I feel like we’re in this two step back phase.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

“I think that having [kids} feel as secure as they can be in their own identity is like the thing that I can do for them as a parent and especially being a multi ethnic parent myself.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

“Because I know how Japanese I am, I don’t need other people to validate that for me.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

“White women in particular have so much privilege… just in the fact that your voices are heard in places where other voices might not be heard. And there’s so much power in that.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

“The minute they walk outside, everyone’s going to try and put them into a little box of who they believe they are. And that box is probably not going to be who they believe they are.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

“Think about what you can control versus what is out of your control… going back to what can I control? What are the little things I can do, especially community based or family based, that might have the biggest impact in the end.” – Misasha Suzuki Graham

NICOLE
Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of The School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong. Today, I have a really special treat for you with our guest, Misasha Suzuki Graham. She is a graduate of Harvard College and Columbia Law School. Misasha has been passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion in the legal profession as well as in her own communities for over 20 years. She is the co-author of Dear White Women: Let’s Get Uncomfortable Talking About Racism and the co-host of the social justice podcast Dear White Women. We will dive into how she decided to title her podcast that way and what the reaction has been like.

Misasha has a truly remarkable story about growing up Japanese and white, and she shares profound insights on what it means to own your journey and your story. So make sure to stay tuned—it’s such a good conversation.

Before we get started, if you are a high-achieving Asian American corporate leader who wants the exact step-by-step process to permanently reverse cultural conditioning so you can step into your power and fully thrive, DM me ‘power’ @nicoletsong on Instagram and let’s chat—I’ve got something for you.

Okay, friends, let’s get into this remarkable conversation.

Welcome to The School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and a work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.

Every week, I bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life, who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Each episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

Welcome, Misasha! Thank you so much for being on The School of Self-Worth. I’m so glad you’re here with us.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Thank you so much for having me! Super excited.

NICOLE
Yeah, I’m really looking forward to this conversation. Misasha and I know each other through a mutual community, The Authentic Asian, and it’s just so fun for me to discover really powerful women doing such cool work in the world. I love the work you’re doing with your book and your podcast Dear White Women.

I’d love it if you could give us a little introduction about yourself, and then we can jump in from there.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Yeah, I never know exactly where to start, but I’ll start at the beginning and we can go from there. I’m the daughter of a Japanese immigrant father and a white mother, so from the start, race and identity have been central to my life. Growing up, my parents made sure I was grounded in all aspects of who I was. That meant going to Little Tokyo every Saturday after ballet, spending a lot of time in Japan with my relatives—since my dad was the only member of his family to come to the United States—and really being immersed in both cultures.

That upbringing gave me a strong sense of how identity influences who we are and how we move through the world. I remember realizing early on that being multiethnic was very different from what most of my friends experienced. There weren’t many of us in school at the time, which I think is very different now for my children’s generation. That also made me think about whose voices get heard in society and how.

That realization ultimately led me to law school. After college, I did a short stint in Tokyo in finance—quickly realizing it wasn’t for me—and I ended up pursuing law because I wanted to ensure that everyone in our society has a voice and is represented. Even though I initially followed a traditional big-firm law path in intellectual property litigation, I still did a lot of pro bono work on the side.

When I left big law after having my two boys, a lot of the work I’ve done since—including Dear White Women, our book, and the speaking engagements I do (both alone and with my co-host and best friend, Sarah)—is still rooted in the belief that everyone’s voice matters. When we think about who we consider to be American or whose stories are worth telling, we need to make that definition as expansive as possible.

NICOLE
Such a powerful message right from the start! I have so many questions—from parenting to how you named your podcast and everything in between.

Let’s start with your experience growing up multiethnic. How has that shaped your approach to parenting your own kids? Do you find yourself doing things similarly to how your parents raised you, or have you had to adapt? These days, it feels like so many kids are growing up multiethnic.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Right.

NICOLE
Like, just living in Seattle or in the Bay Area—everywhere you go, you see diverse families. How do you approach that, and what advice would you have for anyone in a multiracial marriage or raising multiethnic kids?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Yeah, that’s something I’m continually working on. The thing about being multiethnic is that you have a different relationship with the world than either of your parents does. And then when you turn around and parent multiethnic kids—my boys are Black, Japanese, and white—they show up in the world very differently than I do.

What I try to do for them, which I feel my parents did well for me, is make sure they are grounded in who they are. The minute they walk outside, society will try to put them into a box that may not reflect how they see themselves. So they really need to be strong in their own identity.

For example, my boys take Japanese lessons because learning the language was important to me. At the same time, they are very aware of what it means to be Black in America through my husband’s experiences—because that’s not something I have personally lived. They understand that their identity is multifaceted, and my goal is to help them feel as secure as possible in all parts of who they are.

NICOLE
That’s so interesting because there’s always this tension between how you view yourself and how society sees you. I feel that personally—like, how I see myself and how others categorize me can be completely different. I imagine people don’t immediately see the Japanese part of your kids’ identity?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Right.

NICOLE
And yet, their Japanese heritage is such an important part of who they are. I find that fascinating. Has your own experience of navigating identity informed the kind of work you do around representation and ensuring diverse voices are heard?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM
Absolutely. Growing up, it confused people that I was multiethnic. And on top of that, my parents made up my name—there are no other Misashas. They loved the name Sasha, and my dad wanted a kanji character that represented beauty, so they created Misasha. They thought Japanese people would assume it was Japanese, and Americans would think it was American. But that completely backfired—Japanese people thought it was an odd American name, and Americans assumed I was Russian!

For years, I hated my name because every time I introduced myself, I had to explain it. But now, I love it because it perfectly represents the blend of my identities.

My kids have unique Japanese first names, but because they are primarily perceived as Black, people don’t often associate them with their Japanese heritage. That’s why it’s so important for them to know who they are and embrace all parts of themselves.

So I think they too have been sort of thrown into a world of having their name called and people doing a double and triple take, looking for this person they visualize and realizing, no, that is not this kid. But at the same time, they are even better than I was at their age at speaking up and saying, “That’s who I am.” If people ask about it, they’re very able to tell the story of why their name is their name.

It’s really interesting how you perceive yourself versus how the world perceives you, and what that struggle, challenge, or growth looks like through that process.

NICOLE 

Well, I think for anybody, there’s so much tension and so many different versions of how you’re perceived. For me, being fully Asian American—fully Chinese American—I was always asked, “What are you?” as in, “What type of Asian are you?”

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Right?

NICOLE

And then I’d hear, “Oh, you don’t look Chinese.” And I’d think, “Well, that’s great, but I am.” Those conversations came up a lot when I was younger. As an adult, it happens less, but people still make assumptions. It’s interesting how you experience these things as a kid versus as an adult, and whether you come to terms with them—or maybe you don’t. I think that happens for a lot of people.

I’m curious, in terms of your self-worth journey, how did these two different identities play into you taking ownership of them? How did you go from hating your name at 18 to saying, “This is who I am,” the way your kids can do now?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Yeah, I grew up identifying as fully Japanese and white. I spent a lot of time with my Japanese family, and I read, write, and speak Japanese. It felt core to who I was. But people often told me, “Oh, you don’t look Japanese,” or they’d give me this questioning look.

I distinctly remember going to an Asian American association meeting in my freshman year of college, and people looking at me like, “Why are you here?” That was around the time I had spent years trying to fit into what I perceived to be an Asian mold. Growing up in Los Angeles, I wanted straight hair. I wanted certain physical things to be different.

But those moments in college made me realize: this is who I am. I might not be accepted in certain ways, but I have to be strong in knowing my own identity. Because I know how Japanese I am, I don’t need other people to validate that for me. That realization was part of my growth path.

NICOLE

That makes sense. You have to take ownership of that side of yourself. Even as someone who is fully Chinese American, I had to do that too. Growing up in the Chicago suburbs, which were predominantly white, I thought I had to push my culture aside to be accepted.

Even though I was in Chinese school and traveled back to Taiwan, I went through a phase where I tried to immerse myself more in my culture—studying in China, learning the language, and finally embracing both Chinese and American as my identity. It was different from your experience but similar in that I had to accept that all of this is who I am.

Even now as an adult, I think about how I express that side of myself. I own it, but do I fully own it? There are so many things I do daily that are very Chinese, but I don’t even think about them as Chinese. I imagine you have similar things. Sometimes I wonder why I don’t share more openly—why I don’t say, “This is the food I eat, these are the customs in my house.” It’s an ongoing journey for anyone with immigrant parents, navigating both worlds.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Definitely. That’s something I think about a lot too, especially for my boys.

NICOLE

So getting back to your podcast and the journey to writing books like Dear White Women, where did that creation come from?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

I love the title Dear White Women because no one feels neutral about it. Everyone has a reaction—good or bad. It came from my experience growing up with a white mother in predominantly white circles, from Pasadena to college and law school.

My co-host and best friend, Sarah, is also Japanese and white. We grew up navigating white spaces, and we realized we had unique access to these circles. We observed three things: what was being said, what wasn’t being talked about, and what was said when these circles thought there were no women of color present.

That third part was particularly revealing and difficult. We thought, “What if we could change these conversations?” When we became parents, it became even bigger than us—it was about our children. What would their experiences be like? How could we shape these narratives?

So we started the platform. Our tagline is: “We help white women use their privilege to uproot systemic racism without centering themselves in the process.” It’s been almost six years of the podcast, the book came out in 2021, and we do a lot of speaking. We always get asked about our title, and I love that conversation.

NICOLE 

What did you find in those conversations? I haven’t been privy to spaces where people assume there are no people of color, so can you share more about that? And who engages with your platform—mostly white women, or do you also get women of color?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM 

We actually get a wide range, including white men, which is interesting. Initially, we focused on white women, but it expanded.

Even in liberal areas like the Bay Area, racism and other isms are often seen as “someone else’s issue.” Many white women feel they can help when convenient but disengage when it’s not. I’ve even had parents tell me, “I don’t want to talk about racism with my child because I don’t want to traumatize them.” My response is: “That might be more about you than your child.” I have to have those conversations because I have Black sons. Their safety depends on it.

Some white women tell me, “Oh, that’s such great work you’re doing,” as if it’s my responsibility alone. But real change requires all of us. White women, in particular, have privilege—their voices are heard in ways others’ aren’t. There’s power in that, and we encourage them to use it for change.

NICOLE 

Your platform started before 2020, and then that year brought a surge in these conversations. But now, many companies are scaling back their DEI initiatives. Do you see interest in these conversations waxing and waning? Because it seems like a privilege to engage only when convenient.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM 

Absolutely. After George Floyd’s murder, there was intense interest in our platform, which made me hopeful. These were conversations that weren’t happening before, and suddenly, people were willing to have them. I thought, “This is progress.”

But progress isn’t linear. And now, as you said, many are stepping away. Some think, “We had the conversation, so we’re done.” But we’re not. The real work happens when the conversation isn’t convenient, and that’s what we keep pushing for. Like, we take three steps forward and then two steps back. And right now, I feel like we’re in that two-step-back phase when it comes to having these conversations. You’re absolutely right—there are so many people who don’t have to engage in these discussions regularly. And right now, it’s easier to avoid them because you don’t know how the other person feels. You might feel like you’re walking into a minefield, or maybe people see it as a negative business decision. There are so many reasons why these conversations aren’t happening as often.

Being close to Silicon Valley and big tech, which is under fire for capitulating to ideas that are anti-DEI even at a fundamental level, I’m hopeful that we’ll start moving forward again.

Regardless of what you call it, the concept still exists. That’s what I’ve been trying to say. Even if we move away from the term DEI, if we’re talking about inclusion, belonging, psychological safety, or having difficult conversations, we’re still addressing the same fundamental issues. Someone once told me that diversity exists whether or not we talk about it—it’s present in every space. What matters is how we frame it, how we shape the movements around it, and how we keep these conversations alive, even if they don’t look the same as they did in 2020 or 2022. It might evolve, but we’ll keep pushing forward in 2025.

NICOLE 

Yeah, like you said, diversity is all around us. And tying it back to what you mentioned about your kids being grounded in the complexity of their identities, the more we embrace who we are, the more normal it becomes. I think about that in terms of owning my Asian American identity—when I fully embrace it, it becomes natural rather than something I have to navigate or assimilate into. The more we show up as our full selves, the more it shifts the norm, rather than shying away from these discussions.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Completely.

NICOLE

 And it seems like, no matter what, there will always be people continuing these conversations, even when the broader culture isn’t actively engaging. I feel like I have these discussions all the time, and I don’t do anything formal in DEI. But whether it’s through my husband’s work training, conversations with friends, or my podcast, these topics are still very much alive. That’s one reason I love featuring women of color here—because it allows for a different, deeper kind of dialogue.

I’m curious—there have been many points in your life where your self-worth has likely been challenged because of your identity. And now, with your work under the title Dear White Women, how have you maintained your sense of worth and value while continuing to share your authentic voice?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

That’s a great question. A lot of those challenges came up in professional settings—especially in a law firm, where the Asian female voice is often perceived as submissive. The expectation was that we would be the workers, not the partners. But I’ve always had this drive—if you tell me I can’t do something, I’ll prove you wrong. And I think my kids have inherited that too, which makes me happy.

Since having my boys, I’ve realized that this work is bigger than me. My self-worth is one thing, but if I can continue doing what I do and make things better for them, that means everything. The impact doesn’t always have to be big and grand. Even if a single conversation shifts someone’s perspective and that person later interacts with my kids in a different, more understanding way—that’s meaningful.

I’ve had to shift my mindset away from measuring impact in large, immediate ways. I’m used to high achievement and big titles, but now I see that small actions can have profound ripple effects, even if they take time to materialize.

NICOLE

I love that. It’s easy to feel overwhelmed by everything happening in the world, like the LA fires right now, and feel like we have to take drastic action immediately. But really, it’s the small, consistent actions that create lasting change.

I was at a bookstore yesterday and picked up Atomic Habits again. The book talks about the compound effect of small habits—how just a 1% change adds up over time. That principle applies not just to personal growth but also to conversations about race, inclusion, and even climate change. Every small effort contributes to a larger impact.

It’s easy to feel like we’re just cogs in a massive system, but we have to come back to what we can control. Maybe that’s a conversation with our kids or an interaction with someone who might influence them later.

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Absolutely. I’ve been thinking about that a lot, especially with my family still in LA and Ventura County. I tell my kids all the time—focus on what you can control. As adults, we often feel powerless with so many things happening at once. But refocusing on what’s within our reach—especially within our communities and families—can have the greatest impact in the end.

NICOLE

Yes, I completely believe that too. This has been such a rich conversation. I love the way you articulate these ideas in such a clear and accessible way. Are you ready for our fast-action questions?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM 

I’m ready.

NICOLE

Okay, first question—what’s on your nightstand?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

 A huge lamp we just got after a home remodel, a book by George Takei about the Japanese incarceration (which I’m reading with my younger son), and a little polar bear my older son made in school when he chose it as his spirit animal. I have no idea why he picked a polar bear, but it’s there!

NICOLE

That’s so sweet! What’s the last thing you watched on TV?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

A BBC show called The Agency about the British consulate in Barcelona and all the cases they handle. I love crime, detective, and murder mystery shows—especially anything from the BBC.

NICOLE 

That sounds fun! Next—when was the last time you tried something new, and what was it?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

My kids always push me to try new things. My older son plays futsal and convinced me to try it. I was never a soccer player, and I definitely have a healthy fear of balls flying at me in a gym—but I gave it a shot! He’s way better at it than I am.

NICOLE

That reminds me of dodgeball trauma from elementary school! Okay, last question—what are your top three most-used emojis?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

The laughing face emoji—though my tween tells me it’s outdated, the one with a wonky face and tongue sticking out, and the woman shrugging emoji.

NICOLE

I love it! What does Gen Z use instead of the laughing emoji?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Apparently, they use the skull emoji to say “I’m dead” from laughing. But my seventh-grader insists that no emojis are cool anymore!

NICOLE

That’s hilarious. And they don’t like punctuation either!

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Right? Any text over a sentence is “too long” in their world.

NICOLE

Well, Misasha, this has been amazing. Where can people find you?

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

You can find my Dear White Women platform at dearwhitewomen.com, and I’m most active on LinkedIn under my name.

NICOLE

Perfect! Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your story. It’s truly inspiring. And thank you to everyone for listening!

MISASHA SUZUKI GRAHAM

Oh Nicole, thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun.

NICOLE

Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode! Before you go, I want to remind you that if you are a high-achieving woman looking to uncover your biggest blind spots that prevent fast, intuitive decisions, I have a special 72-second assessment for you. Make sure to DM me the word “quiz” on Instagram @nicolesong. We truly appreciate your presence and feedback. We read every note we receive about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we value each and every one of you. 

Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.