Dating with Purpose with Modern Matchmaker Cassindy Chao

• Transition from finance to matchmaking  [00:03:05 – 00:05:45]
• Importance of boundary setting  [00:25:57 – 00:27:06]
• Self-worth and conditional love  [00:22:41 – 00:24:23]
• The “Dating Buffet” approach  [00:16:37 – 00:17:35]
• Energy and openness in dating  [00:39:07 – 00:40:03]
• Different approaches to matchmaking  [00:33:44 – 00:34:39]

“If you love yourself and value yourself, then your partner will value and love you as well. If you don’t, then you’re kind of giving a green light to the partner… don’t value me because I don’t value myself.” 

“What you put out influences what you attract back… if in the beginning you were putting out a certain vibe, then that’s what you’re attracting back.” 

“You are valuable just by being you. You’re not valuable solely because of all the capable things that you can do for the other person.” 

“There’s no prescribed path, there’s no formula… It is kind of an opportunity to craft your own journey. But have the confidence to craft it.” 

“If you work at something, you usually have a better chance of getting it than if you just sat there, did nothing.”

“How you start a relationship is so important because it’s very defining… how you define the dates in the beginning are really important.”

NICOLE

Hello friends! Welcome back to another episode of the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, and today we have such a fun guest for you. Honestly, I wish I had met her just a few years ago because today we have Cassindy Chao, an expert matchmaker. Yes, she is someone who can help you find the perfect person and match. She is the founder of Ancient Wisdom, Modern Love, and we had the best time talking about her fascinating journey. Cassindy transitioned from being an investment banker, where she was secretly matchmaking on the side, to fully embracing matchmaking as her full-time career.

She has so much insight for those of you in the thick of dating, so you do not want to miss this episode. Before we get started, if you are a high-achieving Asian American leader ready to permanently reverse the cultural conditioning blocking you from stepping into your success and power, DM me “power” on Instagram at @NicoleTsong and let’s chat.

Okay, friends, let’s dive into this amazing conversation with Cassindy. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we tap into your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist turned best-selling author and work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.

Every week, I bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share their insights on what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Each episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice to guide you to your next breakthrough.

CASSINDY 

Oh, I’m so happy to be part of this. Thanks, Nicole!

NICOLE

I’m so glad you’re here! We were already chatting about dating before we started, but I want our listeners to hear your story because it’s fascinating. You were fully immersed in the finance world, working at Goldman Sachs, before you transitioned into matchmaking. Can you share your journey with us?

CASSINDY 

Sure! I always joke that I would never hire myself for finance because, while I could handle numbers, I didn’t enjoy them. I worked really hard to be a good banker, but it never truly resonated with me. I kept going back to my happiest time, which was in college when I set up over a hundred people for the Asian Association Blind Date Semi-Formal. That was a huge event, and I practically flunked that semester because I was having too much fun matchmaking!

In finance, I climbed the ranks at J.P. Morgan and Goldman Sachs, but I would always daydream about matchmaking. Eventually, I gained the confidence to leave finance and pursue matchmaking full-time. It took a while because, as an Asian American, it was difficult to walk away from a prestigious and lucrative career.

NICOLE 

Were you secretly matchmaking people on the side while working in finance?

CASSINDY

All the time! Meanwhile, I was terrible at dating myself. I was awkward and a complete klutz.

NICOLE 

Dating is such a journey. It’s definitely a skill set. How did you know that matchmaking was what you really wanted to do?

CASSINDY 

Life has a way of leading you. I was still working hard in finance and later moved into tech. One day, I read an article about a matchmaker in Chicago who offered training. I realized that matchmaking could be a legitimate career. I trained with her and started doing it part-time. A few years ago, I finally went full-time, and I haven’t looked back since. I love meeting new people, sparking joy, and bringing people together. In finance, I never felt like I was making a real difference, but now I do.

NICOLE 

I can see the difference in your energy when you talk about matchmaking versus finance. It’s inspiring for listeners who are figuring out their calling.

CASSINDY 

Yes, my friends noticed that too. They would tell me I should go into matchmaking, but I kept thinking of it as just a side hustle. In finance, I had media training and presentations, but it always felt contrived. With matchmaking, I can talk all day long, and it feels natural. It’s about having the confidence to pursue what truly brings you joy.

NICOLE 

How did your family react when you made the career shift?

CASSINDY 

They were completely baffled. No Asian American parent encourages their child to grow up and be a matchmaker. Even finance was a stretch for them, as my parents were scientists. My grandfather once told me I should win a Nobel Prize. That ship sailed when I got a D-minus in calculus!

NICOLE 

So true! And Asian aunties love to compare careers too.

CASSINDY 

es! They’re always talking about their kids’ achievements. It was tough letting go of that validation and embracing what truly fulfilled me.

NICOLE 

Absolutely. Once you shake off external expectations and pursue what feels right, things fall into place.

CASSINDY 

Exactly. It’s like letting go of a bad boyfriend to make space for someone better.

NICOLE 

Yes! And it’s scary because the bad boyfriend is familiar.

CASSINDY 

Totally. There’s a lot of ego tied to career prestige. There’s a lot of ego to let go and that we all have to come to terms with and realize that it’s just a false figment in our minds, and it doesn’t feed our souls at all. But once you realize that success doesn’t have to involve suffering, things shift. 

NICOLE 

Yeah, I’m so with you on that. It takes a lot to just be like, “Okay, I know who I am.” My journey has taken me from journalism to becoming a yoga teacher and then an entrepreneur. Journalism didn’t pay well, but it had the prestige, right? Leaving to teach yoga was a big shift. My parents were actually very supportive, but they were definitely concerned, asking, “Are you going to make enough money? Can you pay your rent?” It was that kind of worry.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Yeah, of course. It’s uncharted territory, totally. But also, don’t forget all the Asian aunties—the Asian auntie brigade.

NICOLE 

Totally.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Oh my gosh! They’re always like, “My son, he’s not so smart. He only earned blank, blank, blank. Oh, but he works at a drug company or whatever.”

NICOLE 

Yeah, they’re always telling you about all these people, and you’re like, “Who? Who are you talking about?” They give you the background on everybody. But I think it’s such a big thing when you can finally shake that off and just say, “They’re going to say whatever they’re going to say, and it’s time for me to go the route that works best for me.” And that’s where you really landed in this matchmaking world.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Yeah, absolutely. It’s part of our journey—all of us growing up, you know?

NICOLE 

Yeah, for sure. Knowing who you are and being clear and confident in that is so important. So many of my clients are right on the cusp of that, wanting to step into it fully. It’s so fun to have a conversation with someone like you who’s done it. It shows them they can do it too. If becoming a matchmaker is calling them, how cool is that? I mean, seriously, I really feel that way.

CASSINDY CHAO 

But it takes a lot of work, right? You know this from when you left journalism to pivot. It doesn’t come easily. There’s no prescribed path, no formula—you don’t just get this degree and then that job. It’s an opportunity to craft your own journey, but it takes confidence to do so.

NICOLE 

Yeah, and I think that’s the hardest part. If you’ve climbed any kind of ladder—I climbed the journalism ladder, and you climbed the finance or tech ladder—there’s usually a clear path. But when you exit the ladder, it’s like, “What now?” Yoga had a ladder of sorts, but it took time to climb. When you diverge from traditional pathways, you have to figure out how to create your own ladder that works for you instead of following someone else’s. That can be really difficult for people to grasp.

CASSINDY CHAO 

It really is. But sometimes, it’s an opportunity. I remember trying to fit myself back into finance jobs many times and realizing I just didn’t like it. I once tried to become a restructuring specialist—so boring! It was the worst. Studying for the exam felt hopeless. I finally realized it wasn’t a good fit, and I was trying to force myself into the wrong mold.

NICOLE 

Yeah, totally. That’s why you have to create something that’s the perfect fit for you—like the shape of Cassindy or Nicole. It takes time and work. That’s what I help people with: creating the life they truly want. I love having conversations with people like you who’ve crafted their own paths.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Well, I think our community is really lucky to have you. You’re illuminating the fact that there are paths that work. So many of us are struggling to figure out how to build something new, but we also need hope. Your coaching and guidance make a big difference because it helps people realize there is a path; they just have to trust it. If you work at something, you have a much better chance of achieving it than if you do nothing.

NICOLE 

It’s true. I appreciate you saying that. But I actually want to bring this back to dating because I feel like the same principle applies. I was sharing with you earlier, and long-term listeners know this, but I got divorced during COVID and then started dating again.

And I was dating during the pandemic, which was hard enough in itself, and then really sorting my way through dating in my 40s, which is totally different from dating when you’re younger. Even though I had only been married for three years, I hadn’t fully tackled dating from a growth perspective until I was doing it this last round. Cassindy mentioned that some of her matchmaking clients are in Seattle, and I thought, “If only I had known you three years ago, that would have really helped me out.”

But I’m curious—what’s the difference between dating powerfully and the matchmaking services you offer? When would someone want to come to a matchmaker versus just getting on an app and swiping through profiles? Is it the same process with a few differences along the way?

CASSINDY CHAO 

It’s a little different. What I try to do is understand each person because everyone has a unique formula for what works for them. Take, for example, someone who is recently divorced. We usually don’t work with people in the middle of a separation because it’s not the right time—there’s too much going on. But if someone is already divorced, they may have confidence issues or unresolved patterns from their past relationship.

Instead of jumping straight into finding “the one,” I might suggest something I call a “dating buffet.” It works really well, and people can even try it on their own with apps. The idea is to date eight different people, have friends and family help choose them, and take detailed notes. It helps them identify how they feel around different people and realize that their original checklist might not align with what they truly need.

Some clients need time to explore, while others are more focused on finding a specific match, and I work accordingly. But the dating buffet is great because it helps people discover what really matters to them.

Many people don’t realize what they truly need until they take a step back and explore their patterns. It’s all part of the journey. And that’s important. I remember one client said to me, “gosh, I didn’t know how it felt to be cared for”. And I was like, ‘Really?’ She said date number five was this lovely gentleman – when they were in the restaurant and the sun was kind of dabbling in, he said, “Oh, my gosh, the sun’s hitting your face, let me ask them to move the shades down.”  Right? And for her, she hadn’t had that feeling before.

NICOLE 

Yeah, that’s so important. I remember reflecting on my relationships, and the difference between my first marriage and my current one is huge. It’s not that my first marriage was bad—there were great things about it—but I didn’t realize how important emotional safety and security were to me until I experienced them.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Yeah, and that you deserve to feel that way. Especially within the Asian American population, there are a lot of issues with setting boundaries in relationships—patterns we mimic from what we see in our own families. There’s a lot of nuance there, for sure. As we grow and realize that we have agency over what we want—and deserve to have what we want—things shift. Sometimes, the people we were originally dating or attracted to may not be the right ones for us anymore. It’s just life, you know?

NICOLE 

Absolutely. And what you were saying really resonates with me. I had to do a lot of work around understanding the relationship patterns I grew up with—how my parents related to each other—and how that influenced me. In my first relationship, there wasn’t a lot of emotional availability, but it wasn’t just him; it was me too. I didn’t think that about myself at the time, but I realized later that I had learned to shut down emotionally. I had to recognize that pattern from my family and work on changing it in my current marriage. That was a really big journey.

Which leads me to this question—what do you find that people don’t even realize they need in a relationship? What are the things that you often have to help them see as essential for long-term happiness? When I was younger, my priorities were all about what he did, if he made me laugh, if we had fun together. Those things do matter, but I had to learn to prioritize emotional compatibility as well.

CASSINDY CHAO 

It really depends on so many factors. For example, how do you ask for help? How do you receive help? How do you give help? How do you handle disagreements? And how do your relationships with your family influence your boundaries? Do your parents protect you from their own parents, and vice versa? There’s a lot to unpack. But I always say, what you put out influences what you attract back. Years ago, you might have been putting out a certain vibe—maybe one of competitiveness or independence—and that’s what you attracted. Later on, as you grow and evolve, your needs shift, and you might find yourself seeking more support and connection.

NICOLE 

Yeah, and asking for help is such a big challenge, especially for Asians. How do you help people recognize that and find someone who is open to both giving and receiving help?

CASSINDY CHAO 

Sometimes, it’s just about repetition—rinse and repeat. I run a small entrepreneurship group, and we all like to show how capable we are. But I always tell everyone, you have to bring an “ask” to the meetings. It’s important to model that behavior, to say, “Hey, I need help with SEO,” or “I’d love tips on this or that.” Part of it is getting comfortable admitting that we don’t know everything and that it’s okay to ask for support.

In Asian American culture, love is often conditional—you’re lovable because you’re capable. It’s a hard mindset to break, but it’s important because it can block you from the very things you need.

NICOLE 

I always come back to what Brene Brown says about trust—one of the key components of trust is asking for help. People trust those who ask for help, and they don’t trust those who never do. Isn’t that fascinating?

CASSINDY CHAO 

Wow, I didn’t know that. That’s a really great insight.

NICOLE 

Yeah, people don’t trust perfection. If someone seems too perfect and never asks for help, others tend to feel disconnected. But showing vulnerability, admitting you need help—that builds stronger relationships.

CASSINDY CHAO 

That’s so wise. Growing up as an Asian daughter, it was always about proving my capabilities, and it was exhausting. I’ve worked hard to change that narrative, even with my own parents. My mother, before she passed away from cancer, and I had some deep conversations about stress, taking on too much, and stress and it was really illuminating. Those were some important conversations.

I even yelled at my dad once because he kept sending me articles about how capable women behave. I got so mad and said, “Your capable daughter is really tired.”  I grabbed the frying pan—bam, bam, bam—”Your capable daughter cooked dinner today.” Bam, bam, bam—”Your capable daughter took you to the doctor.” Bam, bam, bam. He was like, “Oh.” But I needed him to understand that I was done with that narrative.

NICOLE 

Yeah, totally. We’re rewarded for being capable, right? And we talk a lot about this in our self-worth journey—when you’re constantly rewarded for being capable, it’s easy to tie your self-worth to that instead of realizing you’re worthy just because, not because you’re doing everything for your family.

CASSINDY CHAO 

Exactly! I remember feeling like a horse pulling this giant cart. My parents lost their jobs, and I gave them my work bonus. It was exhausting. I felt this constant pressure to take care of everything, and it was miserable.

NICOLE 

Yeah, and you reach a point where you don’t want to do it anymore. I’m curious—when it comes to self-worth, where do you see challenges come up for Asian American men and women in dating?

CASSINDY CHAO 

The biggest challenge? Boundaries. Almost every woman I’ve worked with struggles to set boundaries. We have to practice that.

NICOLE 

How does it show up? Like, does it come up in dating, where they say things like, “This guy took advantage of me, and I did all these things, but he didn’t appreciate me”?

CASSINDY CHAO 

Exactly. And I tell them, maybe you don’t have to do everything for them all the time. The way you start a relationship is crucial because it sets the tone. No judgment, but if you hop into bed on the first date, you can’t undo that the next day. Similarly, if you’re always doing things for the other person from the start, and then months later, you’re resentful, it’s not fair—they didn’t know it was an issue for you.

So, step one is slowing down that instinct to always take care of everything. Don’t jump in to be the competent son or daughter. If you love doing it, great, but most people can’t sustain it forever. I always tell my clients to take a step back and think before rushing in to solve problems.

NICOLE 

That makes so much sense. So back to self-worth—where else do you see struggles?

CASSINDY CHAO 

Self-worth is knowing you are valuable just by being you—not because of what you do for others. And let’s be honest—under the covers, self-worth matters too. Happiness and satisfaction in a relationship are crucial, and for both men and women, performance anxiety can come up. Relationships make us vulnerable, and it’s important to communicate what truly makes you happy.

It’s not a good long-term strategy to fake it. Being honest about your needs, even if it takes time to figure out, leads to a much happier and healthier relationship.

NICOLE

I love what you’re saying about all this. Even for me, on a physical level, I had to make subtle changes without constantly seeking validation. I wasn’t asking, “Do you think I’m pretty? Are you attracted to me?” all the time, because my husband would say, “Well, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t think those things.” It was a moment where I had to catch myself and realize, “I don’t need to keep asking for validation.” It came from a place of insecurity, thinking, maybe he doesn’t like me, maybe he doesn’t want to be here. But then I reminded myself: if I’m worthy, and he’s here with me, that’s all I need to know.

CASSINDY CHAO

But it’s hard.

NICOLE

It is hard. I’m sharing this because it was so difficult for me.

CASSINDY CHAO

I feel you. I remember growing up, my parents were blunt. My mom would say things like, “Oh, you’re a little chubby,” and I’d respond, “Great, Mom, you walk like a duck.”
And she’d whack me on the back for bad posture, telling me, “You walk like this,” and I’d shrug it off. But once, my mom said to me, “You’re a failure as a daughter.” I was shocked. She said I had a bad temper and couldn’t keep house, and it really hurt. We’ve had many conversations over the years because, in her era in Taiwan, the standard was having a tiny waist and looking a certain way. But I’ve spent time explaining to her how much that hurt. She eventually said, “You’re a great son. You’re a success as a son,” because I did well, but those words still stung. It takes a lot to push back and redefine things, but it’s important for the next generation.

NICOLE

Absolutely. 

CASSINDY CHAO

That’s why I love dating—it’s such a powerful space for growth and self-development. It’s about catching yourself, setting boundaries, feeling worthy, and learning how to set the tone in a relationship from the very beginning.

NICOLE

Exactly, it’s so important, so that you can have a future you want.

CASSINDY CHAO

And if you love and value yourself, your partner will do the same. If you don’t value yourself, you’re giving your partner the green light to undervalue you. So, it’s really on us to find ourselves lovable and deserving.

NICOLE

For sure. So, what would you say to people on their dating journey? When is matchmaking a good option, and when should they just keep dating?

CASSINDY CHAO 

I think having a conversation is always a good start. I do a lot of conversations that aren’t about matchmaking but provide advice and tips. As a matchmaker, you want to help people by putting them in front of the right people at the right time—that’s the most rewarding part. If someone is just starting their dating journey, that’s a different process, like my “date buffet” program. But I always encourage a conversation early on, even if they come back six months later. The key is recalibration: think about what really matters. You may have a checklist, but it’s important to consider the whole picture. Are you looking for someone to have kids with, or do you want a partner who will support your career? There are so many different kinds of relationships that work, so I like to throw in those questions. There’s no right or wrong answer, but these conversations help people reflect. When they’re ready to narrow things down, that’s when I can step in and introduce them to the right people.

NICOLE

That’s amazing to know. Timing is everything when it comes to dating. I think about my own journey. I was dating while separated, then after the divorce was finalized, boom, that’s when I met my husband. Sometimes, you just need to have things be done before you can be fully open for what’s next.

CASSINDY CHAO

Exactly! I do that too sometimes, where I structure things a bit differently. Right now, you’re in an exploratory phase, so here’s my suggestion: take this time to explore. When you’re ready, we can go all in, and by then, you’ll have a clearer picture. After a divorce, you might need to “play the field” a little, and that’s totally okay. Sometimes, people swing too far in the other direction, but that’s part of the journey.

NICOLE

It’s all about figuring out when you’re ready and what you’re looking for. Also, you mentioned you mostly focus on New York, LA, and the Bay Area, but you also know people in Seattle. So if anyone in Seattle is looking for support, can they reach out to you?

CASSINDY CHAO

Yes, I actually do work with clients in Seattle and Vancouver. It’s a small world, and I’m always expanding my network. My main focus right now is LA, Bay Area, and New York, as I have a solid base there. But Seattle and Boston are definitely on my radar. Once I have the network, when a client comes to me and says, “I’m looking for someone family-oriented, wants kids, went to a good school,” I can go into my database or network to find someone suitable. I’m also part of the Matchmakers Alliance, which is one of the top 70 matchmaker networks in the country.

If it’s a very specific request, especially for VIP clients who can’t be online, it’s like being an executive recruiter. I’ll personally track down potential matches. I’m pretty good at finding people in one way or another.

NICOLE

So, you’re like a professional matchmaker, finding people and setting up dates? That’s so interesting!

CASSINDY CHAO

Exactly! And setting up the date itself is key. Often, we meet tons of people, but if we’re not receptive, nothing clicks. So I focus on creating unique introductions. For example, if it’s raining heavily here in California, I might tell one person to take a picture of what water means to them, or share a family recipe they grew up with. It adds a personal touch. I don’t want them starting the date with the usual, “I went to this school, I did this…” because that’s boring! I want something that sparks a real connection. Even if the chemistry isn’t right, I want them to feel they met someone interesting. And friendships can also bloom this way. I recently did an event in LA with Coffee Meets Bagel, where we made meeting people more fun and engaging. Time is precious, so we don’t want it to just be about finding a date—sometimes it’s about meeting someone who can introduce you to someone else. It’s all part of the process.

NICOLE

I love that! It’s like a “dating buffet.” One of my clients actually called it that—she was like, “I’m going to sample from the dating buffet.” And I said, “You go girl!” You don’t always know what you want or need, but it’s fun to meet interesting, quirky people. You can learn a lot from just having a conversation.

CASSINDY CHAO

You’re naturally curious, which is a great trait. When you’re open, the other person feels that and it brings out the best in them. They’re like, “Wow, someone actually cares about getting to know me.” And that openness helps them rise to the occasion, wanting to connect with you too. That’s super important!

NICOLE

It sounds like the energy you bring to a date is super important. Is that right? You’re really focused on making sure you’re on the right trajectory from the start?

CASSINDY CHAO

Exactly. Otherwise, it’s just a waste of time. Two people could be perfect for each other, but if they meet at the wrong time or in the wrong mood, they might miss that connection. As a matchmaker, I put a lot of effort into curating these matches. I don’t want all that hard work to go to waste just because they weren’t open to the moment.

NICOLE

What’s your most rewarding moment as a matchmaker? Is it when the first date goes well, or when they get engaged? What do you consider your biggest success?

CASSINDY CHAO

There are two types of moments that stand out. Of course, when a couple gets engaged, that’s the traditional success. But for me, the most rewarding moments are when someone who starts the process feeling unsure about their worth or wondering if they’ll ever find someone special suddenly realizes they’re having fun and meeting someone amazing. That transformation is so fulfilling. Just recently, I got a gift of six wines from a renowned vineyard, and it was from a client who was incredibly happy. It’s little moments like that that make all the effort worth it. Another client, an ER doctor, was so dedicated to helping others but had a hard time putting herself first. She married a great guy, and I’ll never forget how she was so resistant to house-hunting with him. She didn’t even realize he was asking to buy a home together. It’s these little moments of realization that are so rewarding.

NICOLE

That’s such a beautiful thing to witness, the growth and transformation. I think dating really is about the possibility of partnership, and what’s exciting is that it can lead to so much more. When I was dating my husband, I was kind of used to being in charge, controlling the pace. But then one day, I told him, “I think we should be in a relationship that’s headed toward marriage,” and he surprised me by saying, “Okay, then we should move in together.” It threw me off, but it was that shift that made me realize he was the kind of person I wanted to be with. He didn’t just let me drive the relationship; he pushed me to grow.

CASSINDY CHAO

That’s exactly it—he earned your respect. It’s a huge part of a relationship when both people feel like equals. It shows growth and appreciation for each other, and that’s such an important dynamic.

NICOLE

Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of women in my circle are similar—they’re strong in their careers, but dating is where they struggle with navigating balance. For me, equal partnership is key, and when my husband kept showing up as an equal partner, that’s when I knew this was the one. It’s all about growing together, emotionally and in every way.

CASSINDY CHAO

Absolutely. And it’s a sign of personal growth when you recognize and appreciate that. The old you might have resisted it, but now you see it for what it is—a healthy balance of respect and partnership. That shift is so important.

NICOLE

Well, Cassindy, this has been such a fun conversation! I love talking about dating, and I love the work you do. For anyone listening, if you’re curious about dating or need some guidance, definitely reach out to Cassindy. Now, it’s time for our rapid-fire questions! Ready?

CASSINDY CHAO

Let’s do it!

NICOLE

What was the last thing you watched on TV?

CASSINDY CHAO

I watched Carry On on Netflix. It’s a thriller with Jason Bateman. It’s about a terrorist at an airport with a chemical weapon. Not my usual genre, but I enjoyed the dialogue.

NICOLE

That’s intense! What’s on your nightstand?

CASSINDY CHAO

Cat treats! I foster cats, and I use them to lure my kitten for snuggles.

NICOLE

Aww, so sweet! When was the last time you tried something new?

CASSINDY CHAO

Just this past weekend, I drove an hour and a half to visit this amazing bakery in LA. I had the most incredible blue masa sourdough cornbread at 6100 Bakery. It was life-changing!

NICOLE

That sounds amazing! Last question: what are your top three most used emojis?

CASSINDY CHAO

I use the two heart emojis a lot, the happy face with the kiss, and I also use a little Mahjong tile emoji because I teach Mahjong on Tuesdays.

NICOLE

That’s so fun! I wish I lived near you so I could join a game! Thank you so much for being here today. It was such a great conversation!

CASSINDY CHAO

Thank you! I really enjoyed this.

NICOLE

Before you go, if you’re a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots when it comes to making fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you. DM me “quiz” on Instagram @nicoletsong. Thanks so much for tuning in, and for all your amazing notes about how this podcast is impacting your life. I appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.