The Healing Power of K-Dramas with Jeanie Y. Chang

• Learning that self-care is essential, not selfish (15:00)
• How to navigate the culture pressure of growing up Asian-American while still taking care of your mental health (21:24)
• How the relatable narratives in K-dramas help people connect to their emotions (27:29)
• The broad appeal of K-dramas and how the emotional storytelling and Korean culture resonate with people from all backgrounds. (34:23)

“As a family therapist, even though I want the family to be cohesive and intact, there are times I even tell the kids they may need to pivot and not do what their parents tell them to do or actually not try to convince their parents. Like, there’s very different conversations I have. We could talk about what that looks like in K-dramas, but I did a lot of work on that.”

“I think it’s really important to, for the sake of our mental health, this is where I go a little bit against the grain of Asian culture. I look at it from, I look at things as mental health being the top priority. It’s about being collective. For me, mental health is about self. Self is not what I say. Self is not selfish. People are usually like, oh, self care is selfish. I’m like, that is just the misconception. You cannot take care of your family if you are not taking care of yourself.”

“We can change ourselves. Meaning I can only change me. I can’t change my spouse even if I tried, right? But I can go, let me change my approach with my spouse or let me change the approach with my parents. So I tell a lot of Gen Z’s and millennials that struggle a lot with their mental health within the family. And they’ll go, your goal is not to convince your parents to talk more about mental health.”

“Koreans are very emotional, but they’re not verbal. So I kind of make it clear, like, going, by the way, nonverbal communication is also a powerful form of communication. I just want them to get better at talking about it. But Koreans would be like, what? I don’t talk about mental health, and that’s fine. And I’m just in a place where I understand that, so there’s different ways of showing it. K dramas are written by females, almost 99% females. Females are just excellent. They’re very good at bringing out the emotional parts of stories. That’s what females do. And so these female writers also delve into the characters because that’s how they feel, and so they bring all their emotions into it.”

NICOLE

Hello friends. It’s the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host Nicole Tsong, and welcome back. Today, you’re in for just the best conversation. I loved this conversation so much and I love this topic, and it’s not just because I love K-dramas (and it involves K-dramas). But if you love a good, juicy Korean drama and all of the crazy plot twists, today is going to be so perfect for you, because I get to welcome to the podcast, Jeanie Chang.

So Jeanie is a licensed family and marriage therapist and she’s also the author of ‘How K-Dramas Can Transform Your Life’ –  powerful lessons on belongingness, healing, and mental health. I read her book in two days,  I loved it so much. I learned so much about myself, about Korean dramas and how they can actually really support us in our mental health. And I learned that there are so many K-dramas I have not watched. I also had such a beautiful conversation with Jeannie, who speaks so well to so many of the challenges Asian American women face in managing and handling their mental health, the stigmas that can come up over addressing their mental health, and she really just has so much wisdom. And boy! Does she know a lot about K-dramas. I have a huge list after talking to her and reading her book.

So whether you are an Asian American woman, or you are friends with or work with an Asian American woman, this episode will teach you so much, and you will learn so much about yourself, about them, about the challenges in particular, for Asian American women with mental health.  And if you are a high-achieving Asian American woman who wants to manifest a promotion in 60 days, while working 20 % fewer hours, DM me ‘promotion’ on Instagram, I have got something for you. Okay, friends, let’s get rolling on this fun conversation right now.

Welcome to the School of Self-worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and claim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a best-selling author of three books and work/life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life, who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

 Jeanie, I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth.

JEANIE CHANG

Thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

NICOLE

Well, I have just been doing a deep dive into your book around K-Dramas, and would love to ask you a few questions before we get into it, even though I know fans of K-dramas who are listening, are going to be like, please start talking about K-dramas, but I actually am so excited. Jeanie and I were both at the Asian American Journalist Association two weeks ago, and I wanted to know your backstory, because I don’t know anything about that. So would you please actually just share with us a little bit of your backstory around how you got to this place where you are now, talking about K-dramas and mental health, but you started with journalism?

JEANIE CHANG

Yeah, and so it was really cool being back at AAJA. I think that was only my second convention since COVID, but it’s still the reason why it’s so nostalgic and actually special to be at the Asian American Journalist Association Convention, because I am a former journalist and I always share in my talks that  I left the field of journalism, not necessarily disliking the field. So I always make that clear. And so sharing now, coming full circle, helping journalists with their own mental health, because of some of the stories you have to cover, no matter how difficult, is very, very rewarding.

Sharing why I left the field of journalism, it was back then I was thinking about my own mental health without knowing it was mental health, so this is where I date myself!  …in the 90s, when I was starting my career right after college, no-one talked about mental health, especially in our community, but let alone in the workplace. It was still very much not talked about in the 90s. So what I was experiencing at the time, even though I loved what I was doing, when I was doing it, it was after the fact, when I didn’t do it, as in post-work days and feeling very alone, I didn’t have this belongingness that I think is very, very essential for our mental health. I felt very isolated. There weren’t other Asians at the time, like me, in broadcasting in the radio sector. And you need that support, especially when you’re a young, 22 year-old, out of school, who really wanted to look up to some folks. So I chose to leave. I took a very progressive approach, going, “You know what? I don’t feel good.” And I would say I didn’t feel good. And the ‘feeling not so good’ was burnout. The word that everybody knows today, but that no-one knew in the 90s.

I realized then that I wasn’t going to stay feeling that way. That’s what I mean by progressive approach. I knew I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. I loved what I was doing. I absolutely loved seeing President Clinton multiple times and covering the news. But then overall, I just wasn’t happy. In fact, I was unhappy, but not necessarily due to the field. It was just a lot of my own Korean American upbringing that got me to that point. So I chose to leave it, thinking that it would be better for me.

Of course, when you leave a field, you’re like, “What am I going to do?”  I was in my mid-20s, very young. But back then you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I need to pivot.” So I decided to pivot to business school. And I joke about it, saying, “Hey, I went to business school for not so right reasons. Meaning I could care less about business. I will talk about this. I was not going to medical school. I was not going to law school. I’ll go to graduate school because that’s the Asian thing to do – and we’ll talk more about that with our Asian identity. Then I decided to go to business school. And yes, I did get in by the skin of my teeth. I would say that I did not enjoy it, but I was glad I finished. I was determined to finish graduate school. Because by that point, my parents were really concerned about what I was going to do. I was the talk of the family. What is Jeannie going to do? And she’s in business school. So she better go into marketing. And I did go into marketing for a little bit, but in the midst of all this, I didn’t slow down my family, my personal life. I had four kids by my early thirties.

So fast forward a little bit with having kids. I think I was pregnant three times in business school. That was the joke with my business school friends. They’re like, “Are you pregnant again?” Then I would take half a semester off to have the baby, right?  Then they would ask me if I was still in graduate school. So it took me a little longer, but by the time I finished, I did dabble in marketing, but I was raising my kids as a second generation Korean American, I was having all the mom issues like, these are my kids. What do I want to teach them about my Korean identity, which I had at that point, become a little bit distant from.

Then I just took time off. I was not going to keep working in a field I didn’t want to work in. I really, really saw myself working how I wanted to work. So I took a couple of years off to think about it, and then it came to me, and this is the story I always share. It literally came to me in the middle of the night. I woke up thinking it was my baby crying.  But it wasn’t. It was just something telling me to look into psychology, mental health. And I went, “Well, how did that come about?” But it made sense, because I was constantly thinking about how I was feeling? What’s going on here? That’s why I left the field of journalism. So I started from scratch in my early 30s with four young kids. That was hard, but when you really want to do something, you kind of overlook that.

So we made it work. My husband and I went back to school again. The joke is my husband’s like, “Please don’t go to graduate school again”. Anyway, I went to school again, studied psychology, went into marriage and family therapy specifically, because at the time I really wanted to focus on family and I’m really glad I did that. That’s my core, I want to say my training, and that makes sense as a Korean American. So fast forward to now, having my own private practice. And throughout graduate school, I just recall thinking there was no information on Asian mental health. I remember thinking this little snippet of one sentence of, “And Asian Americans as the model minority”, and I thought, “That’s all, in my entire graduate program?” Even now it’s very similar, that training, and that’s terrible, considering how big our population is, right? So that’s a whole other thing, but my thing was I wanted to reach my community. I want to talk about Asian mental health, something that I grew up wanting to talk more about, but never could.

That’s been my life’s work since, and Korean dramas came into the whole mix several years before the pandemic, when I realized a therapy session was not going well. I decided then to bring it in, because we were not talking about the elephant in the room. I wanted to separate this family from what they were seeing, which is themselves. If you make it about yourselves, you can’t see the trauma. That’s when I decided to bring in a story, and it happened to be a K-drama story. Now none of them had even seen it. Didn’t matter. I just brought it in as an example of storytelling, which is very powerful. And that did the trick. I remember thinking back then, “Oh my goodness, how can I use K -dramas more?” And people are like K -dramas, this is why it’s authentic. K-dramas are my self-care, and they have been for decades. So it made easy sense for me to go, “You know, they helped me, so I’m pretty sure it could help this family, Asian or not.”

I’ll pause there, but that’s the trajectory of how I got to where I am today, and how Korean dramas came to play a big part in my work today, not all of it, but a big part of my mental health work. But I use all my skills, the journalism skills I built up, and then business school skills, and marketing, to do my work today, which is a speaker on workplace mental health. I love speaking to the masses, going into organizations, and telling leaders, “Hey, you need to help your employees”. I’m not that bossy, I’ll say it nicely, but I’m like, “Hey, mental health is very important if you want your business to succeed, how do we make sure that we’re engaging your employees in this way and taking care of their well-being as leaders?” I talk to leaders a lot. They’re my favorite demographic, mainly because they’re the ones creating that change.  That’s a lot of my work today, and that’s me using all my skills. So it’s coming full circle.

NICOLE

I love that whole story, and I have so many things I want to both comment on, and ask you about, in that process. But I’ll just say this, that my experience in journalism, which was in the 2000s when I started, is that that was my first intersection with mental health also, or lack of it, for such a long time, because I had a source die by suicide, and then I went to a therapist for the first time. Like when you talk about vicarious traumatization in your book, that was me, and I remember when that happened, because there was no social media or people talking about mental health and therapy then. So I just wanted to pop that in, because I really related to that. And I think even today, just hanging out with journalists, they are working on it, but there’s just so far to go still to really support them with it, because they are exposed to such intense topics, wars, trauma, life, and all this stuff all the time. So I just wanted to say I really related to you speaking to that piece of it. 

But then I was curious too, like you said, and I loved how you went through a whole business journey and now you’re a therapist and you’re doing all these things, and I’m sure, like you said, every skill you developed over time is supporting you here, and one of the things I was curious about, are those different points of pressure from the Asian side – if you could speak a little bit more to it. Did you have to buck that to become a therapist, did you feel like people  were questioning what you were doing, because you have a business degree? How did you deal with it, because I feel like a lot of my listeners are experiencing things like that. They’re wanting to start to do things that are outside the traditional pathway, and we talk a lot about self-worth on this podcast, so what helped you make that call, and that decision?

JEANIE CHANG

Great question. And the whole thing is, it did come down to my value in self-worth, right? Because as Asian Americans, I always say this, we’re not necessarily told by our parents how good we are, right? If anything, it’s like we’re not good enough. That sounds bad, and it’s not like they don’t love us, but they would prefer you to get an A+.  I joke, but seriously, that’s what we tend to hear. So again, that worth of and A, which is something to celebrate, a terrific grade, is still not celebrated.

When I was a reporter, I remember thinking, “Oh, maybe I should have become an anchor”,  and then I left. Can you believe that? Even though I was not doing well emotionally and just running circles with my own mental health, it was all for show. It was really not about me wanting to be an anchor. Of course, that might have been the goal, but it wasn’t me saying, “Oh my God, this is what I’m doing.” I go, “Oh, I’m a reporter. That looks good to my parents or my family.” So a lot of that is centered on filial piety, which I mentioned in my book, the family obligation that, and I’m clear about saying this, it is very important to know that even though that’s a stressor in our culture, and I say it’s a stressor, daily stressor, that doesn’t mean it’s bad. I say this very cautiously because I don’t want it to be bad or good, because with mental health, there are so many grey areas. If we said this was bad, then it would be saying our culture is bad, but this is so much of our culture. It’s just as a stressor, we navigate through it.

Someone said we have this duty and obligation to please our family. That is there. It’s not like we get rid of it. It’s just part of this decades-long history of teaching that we cannot get rid of, but we can break that cycle. And that’s kind of what I did, unbeknownst to me, because I didn’t have the language for it. I didn’t go to psychology, right? I hadn’t gone to graduate school yet. But I felt it didn’t make sense. I went to business school because it looked good, right? Hey, it looks good to my family. “Guess what? Jeanie quit her job in journalism, but she’s getting an MBA.” That’s what it was about, and that’s too much pressure.  

And so in my early 30s, when I was thinking there was no way I was going to work 30 years in business, I decided to pivot by then, and this is what made it easier for me. Maybe compared to the younger listeners, it’s harder, but I was already my own parent, I was parenting my kids. I was married. So I was able to go, “Mom, dad”, I’m an oppa. I am not going to listen. And I don’t care what you think.” (But that’s not true, I did care what they thought), but I decided to pivot for me and what I wanted to do, and obviously, these are the results. So I’m pivoting in a field that I never imagined I would do. If you told me when I was 18, you’re going to do mental health and talk about K-dramas, I would think K-dramas would be cool, but not mental health. But it’s super cool that what led me here was me deciding to break that cycle. Because I shared, I don’t think I say it too much in this book, but in my memoir, I share.

By the way, I come from a family of brainiacs. Who doesn’t, right? But my cousins are lawyers and doctors, so I didn’t fit that mold. And I remember thinking, “Oh, my cousins, they’re going to say something.” And they did. They’re like, “So you pivot it again. And now you’re going to be in psychology.. like what?”  So that was my own thing that I had to navigate. I still do. But it’s much easier now when I see how proud they are of the work I’m doing, to be able to ground myself and make this impact, my impact. They’re making their own impact as a doctor/lawyer. Great. Here’s mine. But that takes work. I’m 50 years old now, and I tell the young folks, because I work with a lot of young folks. I’m like, “Hey, I wasn’t there at your age either.” I’m not saying, “Come on, let’s buckle up and do.” No, I’m very real with them, it is hard. As a family therapist, even though I want the family to be cohesive and intact, there are times when I even tell the kids they may need to pivot and not do what their parents tell them to do, or actually try to convince their parents. There are very different conversations that I have. We could talk about what that looks like in K-dramas, but I did a lot of work on that. And so I think it’s really important to, for the sake of our mental health, this is where I go a little bit against the grain of Asian culture. I look at things with mental health being the top priority. It’s about being collective. For me, mental health is about self. Self is not selfish. People are usually like, “Oh, self-care, selfish.” I’m like, “That is just the misconception. You cannot take care of your family if you are not taking care of yourself, right?” That whole concept.

So my thing is, your mental health does need to come first for you to do everything you need to do, and that’s what I did. When I decided to do that, I got confirmation throughout graduate school when I was eating everything up and going, “Oh my goodness, this makes sense.” It was like connecting the dots for me. And I believe that happens for everybody, honestly, but it comes at different seasons of life. For me, it actually came after being a mother, and I don’t regret at all that it came at that time, you know? I think it actually made me a better therapist, because I was a little older, and able to use some life experience. That is the biggest thing I work with as a therapist, which is that identity concept of this is my family, and this is me. I was never taught to think about self. And again, it’s not bad, I always tell people there’s going to be that conflict, because we never had that example. However, you might find later on as you reconcile that conflict, you actually start to feel better. And I think I’m a healthier daughter to my parents, because I broke this cycle, or I decided to pivot because it made sense. I always say, what goes around, comes around, things will come back. The family is like a circle. Even though right now your family might be like, “What are you doing being in mental health?” Which is what I got, although now they see things because I wrote a book on all that stuff, and don’t get me started on when they’re like, “Are you going to be a New York Times bestseller?” That’s so Asian! But the whole thing is, I’m confident.

So going back to our self-worth, we have to have our inner confidence. Now I’m like, “Oh, no, I’m not a New York Times bestseller, but I wrote a book that a lot of people are impacted by.”  So my confidence is coming out. It’s a very different approach. It’s not me listing accolades, which I thought was the worth, right? That’s where a lot of Asians go, “Here we are, we’ve done this, this and this, and then we’ve done this and this.” That’s exhausting. It’s great and we can be proud of the achievements, but that should not be our end goal. Our end goal should be, we’ve done this, but look at my confidence and look how I feel about it. And it’s a tough job working in mental health, and I specialize in grief and trauma, and that’s the hardest thing. But I always have this belief in the impact. I focus on what impact I can make and not about how it impacts me, for example, to be the greatest therapist. Am I making sense? So it’s more like, I’ve changed around where I get my worth from. If I can just change one person and help them through a K-drama, which I have, it makes my day when they’re like, “Jeanie, gosh, because of you, I feel so much better.” Then you know what? My job is done for the day. And then the next day starts.

So that’s my long spiel on what that self-worth is. And by the way, it’s a continual process,  because something in our family, or culture, or community, can get us down. And then we feel that pressure again. So I always say I’m 50 years old, but in front of my parents, I’m 17, right? You know, I just saw them this weekend, and I’m still the same tensed up daughter. I have a great relationship with them, but they asked me about my book sales, you know what I mean? They don’t say, “Hey, how’s life? How are you?” And that’s just the Asian way. I don’t ever see them doing that, but I’m different as a parent. I broke that cycle by going, “Oh, son, you seem stressed.” Then my son will just be like, “Yeah, I’m stressed.” If they say, “You’re making me stressed.” I’d be like, “Oh, sorry.” A very different approach to parenting, and we can do that, but it takes work. 

NICOLE

Yeah, thank you for sharing all of those pieces. I really resonate with it. And I think, especially when I became a yoga teacher, which is not on the list of Asian parent approved jobs, right? You have to just be like, okay, what makes me happy? And then me recognizing being happy was going to help them, because they really just want you to be happy and secure. That just comes out, very much, in all of these different ways. 

JEANIE CHANG

It’s so funny. They’re like, “You’re too skinny, you’re too fat.” I mean, that’s what it’s all worth. Where Asians will just talk about your parents and I’d be like, “Hmm, I guess nothing really matters.”

But again, I joke to cheer up the young folks by saying, ‘You can’t change your parents.’ This might be a question you’re grappling with, but we can’t change our parents. Even as a family therapist, I say this: they won’t change, but you can. We can change ourselves. I can only change myself. I can’t change my spouse, even if I tried. But I can change my approach with my spouse, and similarly, with my parents.

I often tell Gen Zs and millennials, who struggle a lot with their mental health within the family, that the goal isn’t to convince your parents to talk more about mental health or go to a therapist. That’s definitely not going to work; it’s like hitting a brick wall. If your parents go because you promoted it, great. But I’ve seen such distress from young folks when their parents don’t go. The reality is they don’t understand what therapy is – they see it very differently and have a different language.

Remember, I mentioned that in the nineties, there wasn’t the same language around mental health that we have now. Older folks just weren’t exposed to it like we are. Even as a Gen X, I see how each generation has a different approach to mental health and culture. Baby boomers are very set in their ways; they were survivors. My generation, Gen X, and maybe a little younger, are the results of those survivors. We’re less about surviving and more about thriving. Then there are the Gen Zs, my kids, who seem to say, ‘Yeah, give us everything.’ Sometimes I think, ‘Oh my God, why are you so entitled?’ But that’s not quite the right word; it’s just very different. We need to accept these differences. 

NICOLE 

This also ties into another topic I’ve been thinking about a lot: Asian mental health and the stigma surrounding it. I’d love to hear about your experience with this stigma and how your work with K-dramas might be helping to combat it. I feel like K-dramas must be making an impact, because I started watching them due to my mom’s obsession. I’m Chinese, and my mom would recommend Chinese shows to watch, but mostly she suggested K-dramas. I got hooked on them, especially ‘Crash Landing on You.’ I’d love to hear your thoughts on how it relates to mental health stigma in Asian communities and the cultural nuances that make mental health such a challenging topic? 

JEANIE CHANG

Yes. First of all, I love that your mom was the one who introduced you. And actually, I’ll be honest with you. That’s how it initially started when I brought it into a therapy session. It was a Chinese American family. I thought, oh my God, I’m grasping at straws. I need to figure something out. So I brought in a K-drama story and talked about it.

The stigma, even in that family session, wasn’t so much about mental health. They just didn’t want to talk about the conflict, which is related to our mental health. I was listening to the mom and daughter and said, ‘You guys are not listening to each other.’ They replied, ‘What do you mean?’ I pointed out, ‘You guys are totally in conflict.’ They didn’t even recognize it as a conflict.

The funny thing is, Asians often avoid conflict. Conflict sounds bad, but for good change to happen, conflict sometimes has to occur, though not always. The stigma runs deep. In family arguments, they might say, ‘No, we didn’t argue,’ and I’d point out, ‘You did argue, right? You just argued in front of me.’ It’s a lot about showing face and saving face in our culture. This ties back to Chinese history and Confucianism, which is also rooted in Korean culture. So even in Korean society today, 2024, the concept of harmony is still very much present. There’s an emphasis on getting along and following the rules, listening to our parents. Sometimes, however, listening to our parents, even though they mean well, doesn’t make sense. Mental health doesn’t always make sense either. Mental health is your emotional, social, and psychological well-being. Well-being isn’t linear, which is how many Asians prefer to think—everything needs to be in order.

But I often find myself changing that perspective, mixing it up, and encouraging people to see things in circles. The stigma around mental health runs deep, rooted in the history of Confucianism. In Korean culture, mental health isn’t taught. Even in American culture, it’s a relatively recent concept. The USA is decades ahead because psychology is deeply rooted in its history. In East Asian culture, despite the high level of education, there’s nothing in the education books about mental health. They study the typical subjects like math, language, and English, but not psychology, so it’s fairly new. It’s great to see it emerging, but that’s why there’s a stigma. They see someone acting out and it’s untreated mental illness. Mental health and mental illness are very different.

I spend a lot of my time educating people in the US and abroad about this. They didn’t receive that education, and that’s why there’s a stigma. If they don’t talk about it, it becomes stigmatic—it’s like the elephant in the room. Everyone knows it’s there. Asians are brilliant; they know something’s there, but they don’t know it’s normal to feel that way. A lot of what I do is teaching Emotions 101: It’s okay to feel sad, it’s okay to be mad. They’re often surprised. I tell them it’s also okay to be anxious and stressed out, especially when it makes sense.

For instance, consider COVID, life transitions, or immigration. When you immigrated from China to the US, wasn’t that stressful? Many might say no, but I’m pretty sure it was. My role often involves normalizing these experiences. I also do some code switching; for older populations, I avoid saying ‘anxiety’ because they might not understand the term. Instead, I’ll say ‘Are you worried?’ It’s crucial to sometimes change the language surrounding mental health to break through the stigma. Some people assert, ‘This is the way it is; we will break mental health stigma,’ but the Asian population is different. We need to be careful with older individuals, like those 65 plus, who might freak out when they hear the word ‘anxiety,’ thinking it implies craziness. That’s a big part of my work: helping others understand that using simple terms like ‘worried’ can make a big difference. This is how we break the stigma – by using language that people can relate to, like stress and worry.

K-dramas came into play as a great way to break the ice. Instead of saying, ‘You have trauma,’ which nobody wants to hear, I use examples from K-dramas. For instance, I might say, ‘In this K-drama, a character loses their parent right in front of them and witnesses their death. How do you think that feels?’ People usually respond with, ‘Oh my God, that’s so traumatic,’ and I go, ‘Yes.’ This helps make the concept more relatable and normal. When people see that story, they realize that’s pretty traumatic. If you watch a parent die in front of you, it’s similar to your own experience. This technique is called externalization. By using familiar stories, it helps people understand and accept their own experiences better.

I write in my book that you can see a story and think, ‘That’s not me,’ but still relate to it without making it about you. It’s hard to confront the self-stigma surrounding your feelings. I understand that stigma. I never say, ‘Oh my god, we should never have stigma.’ K-dramas help facilitate conversations around fictional characters who experience real emotions. While the circumstances, like driving Porsches, may be outlandish, their emotional experiences are genuine. That’s why K-dramas are going global. People connect with these emotional experiences, and K-dramas excel at writing stories centered around characters, unlike Western television, which focuses more on the plot. 

K-dramas are about people, and people relate to people. It made it easy for me to say, ‘You know, I saw this K-drama where a character experiences grief.’ I’d use that example and people would respond, ‘Yeah, that’s grief.’ I’d go, ‘Yes, so let’s talk about it.’ It makes it easier to discuss. When they see the character, it becomes relatable, and they can process their own feelings, realizing, ‘Oh my god, I think I’m grieving.’ Normalizing grief is something I do often. K-dramas showcase excellent examples of emotions, including those that are difficult to handle, like grief. Interestingly, Asians also have trouble with happiness. I might say, ‘You can be happy that you did this,’ and they’d respond, ‘Really?’ I’d remind myself and others that it’s good to celebrate our successes, whatever we see as success.” And you see that in K-dramas, where people are happy for each other over simple things, which I think is so normal. I often point out those happy moments, saying, ‘Look at this. She just celebrated her daughter’s achievement.’ We need to do that in real life.

NICOLE

Well, it’s interesting because you’re sharing that the culture doesn’t necessarily express emotions that well, and yet K-dramas do. I’m curious about this because I’m a total BTS fan. One thing fans love about BTS is their emotional openness; they share their emotions on stage and cry a lot, which isn’t typical, especially for men in America. This emotional expression is also seen in K-dramas, yet you’re describing cultures that are emotionally reserved. Why is it that this emotional divide is being crossed in the entertainment industry but not as much in person? Maybe Koreans are more emotional because Chinese people definitely are not, but I’m curious about this contrast.

JEANIE CHANG

So I’ll just speak for Koreans. Actually, Koreans are very emotional. That’s why you see that in K-dramas. The most frustrating thing about a K-drama is that they don’t necessarily talk about things. As viewers, we see the mom yell at her daughter, then cry, but the daughter won’t see the mom crying. In real life, Koreans are very emotional but not verbal. Nonverbal communication is a powerful form of communication. I just want them to get better at talking about it. The goal in our culture, where the US culture is very verbal about mental health, is different. In the US, people are more open about saying, ‘My mental health is whatever.’ Koreans, on the other hand, don’t talk about mental health as openly, and that’s okay. There are different ways of showing it.

K-dramas are predominantly written by females, almost 99%. Females excel at bringing out the emotional parts of stories. These writers delve into the characters because that’s how they feel, pouring their emotions into the scripts. This isn’t in my book, as it came from post-book research. Many of these female writers want to see this emotional openness happen in society.

We need to remember that K-dramas are dramas, so some scenarios—like a mom sitting down with her daughter and saying, ‘I love you so much’—might not always happen in real life. However, I see the younger generation schooling their parents, saying, ‘Mom, I just want you to say, I love you.’ I’m noticing this change with my cousins and their kids. The younger generation is really expressive, challenging their parents and making changes. So, what K-dramas do well is show emotional expression, often written by women, and highlight that Koreans are very emotional, even if they tend to bottle up their feelings. That’s why you see explosive emotional moments in K-dramas. I believe it’s nice to see men cry in these dramas. In real life, I’ve seen this happen a few times, and it’s powerful to see that representation. Even if it’s not 100% accurate because we’re not going to see men bawling on the streets, it likely happens within homes. The fact that we can see a grown man bawl his eyes out over something feels real. We just don’t see this kind of emotional openness in Hollywood, so it’s great to see it in K-dramas.

NICOLE

Yeah, that is really interesting. I loved how in the book, ‘How K-Dramas Can Transform Your Life,’ it highlights the difference between Hollywood and the K-drama industry. K-dramas feel much more connected; the people and characters are so rich, and you get super wrapped up in their stories. The men cry all the time in K-dramas, which is something I miss in Western TV. I need the hot man to cry!

JEANIE CHANG

Korean dramas have incredible production value – they spend billions of dollars, like on an Oscar-winning movie. We see that quality over 16 episodes, so we get quality acting that makes a big difference. I share in the book that all these elements contribute to the high quality of what we’re seeing, including someone crying.

NICOLE

Well, I love how you discuss various mental health challenges and how K-dramas can show us ways to move through emotions, challenges, grief, and loss. There’s basically a K-drama for everything. I know you listed your favorite ones, but let’s talk about the one that got me—’Crash Landing on You.’ I got totally sucked in and watched the whole thing twice, and it’s pretty long. Why do you think that one, in particular, resonated so much? It demonstrates a lot in terms of mental health and storytelling. The two leads are incredibly gorgeous, making it hard to look away. What do you think made that one so compelling that it drew a global community into K-dramas?

JEANIE CHANG

First of all, the timing was crucial. ‘Crash Landing on You’ came out in December 2019, just before the global lockdown. By March, everyone was stuck at home and stressed out. They turned to Netflix and discovered ‘Crash Landing on You,’ which became the big K-drama in Korea. Netflix’s algorithm helped it pop up for many viewers, and that’s how it gained global attention.

I love ‘Crash Landing on You.’ It broke all records, although ‘Queen of Tears’ has since surpassed it. The show was excellent, but there are even more great stories in K-dramas. It went global because it captivated a huge market in the US, making everyone wonder, ‘What is this beautiful drama? And I think what it did well was a few different things. Besides the love story, which is a core element of K-dramas, we also saw a strong brotherhood among the soldiers. The bromance was fantastic, and seeing good male friendships was refreshing. They cried and looked out for each other. The captain wasn’t just a commanding officer; he served his younger soldiers, reflecting a very Korean thing about serving others.

There’s a scene that always makes me cry where the captain puts on the soldier’s shoes after they stormed the store. These moments are really important. On the cover of my book, I highlight the Korean word ‘Chung,’ meaning belongingness, which is the powerful emotional sentiment of affinity and affection threaded through all the relationships in K-dramas. Besides the love story, you see strong relationships with brothers and within the family. Even though she had conflicts with her family, there was still a connection with her stepmother despite everything. I looked at that relationship thinking, ‘Oh my goodness, the stepmother is just cold.’ K-dramas do this well; there’s never a real villain. It’s so complicated, just like real life where evil people exist, but people are also complicated. Good people can do bad things. The stepmother had her own vices, but later, she shared and expressed that. I absolutely loved that conversation.

But you know how the K-drama did it through a recording. Do you remember that? It was like the mother sharing her thoughts, thinking her daughter was dying. Son Ye-jin’s character hears her mother lay out everything, saying, ‘I was depressed.’ So, in the K-drama, you’re seeing the expression of these emotions verbally. You see ‘Chung’ play out in conflict and then resolution because K-dramas end happily 90% of the time. People might not admit it, but we love that for our mental health. You want to see a fairytale ending. When people say they hate tropes, I tell them that tropes can be a tool for dealing with trauma. You know what to expect with a K-drama—a love story that ends happily. When it doesn’t, it’s rare. ‘Mr. Sunshine,’ that’s all I’m going to say.

Anyways, if you watch that – spoiler alert – there are two parts of grief that I loved. First, the grief of Son Ye-jin’s stepmother. She never had the life or marriage she wanted, which is something you see in real life. She took it out on her daughter, who wasn’t even her biological child but technically the mistress’s daughter. It’s all very complicated. The stepmother had her own struggles, and you see that in real life. Then there’s the mother of the second lead from North Korea, who I absolutely loved. She would do anything for her daughter, the opposite of the stepmother. When her daughter was grieving a loss, it was so touching—it made the show for me. It was a great show all around.

But then you have that one scene where the mother’s like, ‘Okay, I’ll just grieve with you,’ instead of saying, ‘Let me cheer you up, let’s move on.’ Often, we don’t know how to handle grief, but in this case, the mother said, ‘You be sad, I’ll grieve with you.’ And do you know what happened after? Because the mother allowed her to grieve, the daughter got up and moved on with her life.

I tell people, this is a trade secret of therapy: validating the person’s emotions. K-dramas do this well, not just in ‘Crash Landing on You.’ They’ll say, ‘Okay, you’re sad,’ and it’s like they’re therapists. In real life, that’s why therapists get clients—they say, ‘Oh my goodness, that sounds terrible,’ validating the emotion without immediately offering solutions. Then, the solutions come together with the client.

And then you see the brothers’ angst and real-life competition. It’s important to see that, even though we think it’s all mental health, there’s real-life conflict too. How does that conflict get resolved or worked through? With the brothers, it gets worked through, or someone gets their comeuppance. That’s crucial for us to see in terms of mental health. I’ve seen people share that just watching a conversation between a family in a K-drama is a good model for them. For example, someone might say, ‘I really liked the way Hyun Bin talked to his dad. I need to do something like that.’ Mental health is an everyday, every moment thing. So everything we see in K-dramas, from conversations with your dad to dealing with grief, is all part of the process.

NICOLE

Well, I love so many things about what you said. One thing I’ve realized is that family is a huge part of Korean dramas. It’s predictable that there will be family involvement. That’s one reason I love them, because you don’t often see that in Western shows. Families aren’t usually as present, but they are always central in Korean dramas. There’s always some kind of connection with parents.

I’m also a big romance fantasy reader, and it’s the same thing—there’s a predictable trope. No matter how stressful and intense it gets, you know it’s going to resolve positively in the end. K-dramas can get so intense that you’re on the edge of your seat, but you know it will all work out. For me, that’s relaxing. I can watch 16 episodes, knowing that even when it gets really bad, it will still have a happy ending.

JEANIE CHANG

Yeah, I also want to bring up that many folks, as mentioned in my book, have stopped watching Western shows. This feedback came from non-Asians. They said they love the fact that K-dramas or Korean dramas are G or PG-rated. It’s helpful for mental health not to see killings, gore, blood, sex, and violence. We need something pleasant to watch for our mental health, because real life isn’t always simple. With a K-drama, you know your five-year-old can walk in, and you won’t have to worry about them seeing a sex scene. 

NICOLE

It’s a big deal when they kiss. It’s like, ‘What’s happening!’

 JEANIE CHANG

I have friends of different backgrounds who are like, ‘Did they just kiss? That’s a big deal.’ I crack up and say, ‘Did you just say a kiss was a big deal?’ They respond, ‘Yeah, in a K-drama, it’s like the end all.’  It’s funny how their perspective has shifted. What they love about K-dramas is the innocence. It’s a big part of our conservative culture. You see that and think, ‘Oh, let’s cover up the skin,’ and it’s amusing. And I see that in real life because it’s hard for people to show affection, like PDA. But overall, Americans, or non-Asians, love and resonate with K-dramas. During the pandemic, when the world was at odds with COVID, political contention, and trauma from school shootings, K-dramas blew up. People turned to K-dramas saying, ‘This is new, this is different. I like what I see.’

I tell Asians that the very things about our culture we couldn’t stand are the things people love. Asian Americans often say, ‘You like that about our culture?’ And non-Asians respond, ‘Yeah, I love that you have these intergenerational conversations.’ It’s surprising but helpful. At the end of the day, bringing K-dramas into my life helped my mental health and allowed me to see positive reactions like, ‘I love that about your culture.’ We needed to hear that because our history was often overlooked, and we were always seen as foreigners. This affects our confidence. But when someone says, ‘I didn’t realize that Asian culture is so family-oriented, I love it,’ it feels nice.

I do the reverse with Asians, telling them that K-dramas have opened up the world to our culture. People now see that Asian culture is cool, and we needed that recognition, especially at this time.

NICOLE

Yeah, I love that. Well, I’m curious too, as you know, assimilation into Western culture can be really challenging for Asians. Do you feel like the rise of K-beauty, K-pop, and K-dramas is starting to help shift the tide, making people more open and accepting of Asian cultures in general?

JEANIE CHANG

I’ve mentioned in my book that I’m starting to give tours to South Korea, and they’re all non-Asians. I have these South Korean tours, because I do K-Drama wellness tours, and I’m noticing that almost none of the attendees are Asian. Maybe about 10 percent. It’s amazing, because they fell in love with the culture. Once people watch K-dramas, they often move on to C-dramas, J-dramas, and I-dramas. They go down this rabbit hole, and I think that’s great. What resonates with them is the sense of belongingness in the family—’Chung.’ That’s why I put that Korean word on the cover of my book. It represents the innate belongingness in Korean society, which is so beneficial for our mental health.

The most detrimental thing to our mental health, I believe, is loneliness—feeling like nobody gets you or having no one to talk to when you’re depressed. Or when you’re stressed out, who do you vent to? It’s so important to have a community. That’s what you see in K-dramas—they resonate with people having a tough day. Watching a K-drama can make them feel like they have a family. But I always remind them to have real-life connections too, as a joke and a serious piece of advice.  I love that they see examples of family, sisterhood, bromance, romance, and all that in K-dramas. It all resonates. Even if people don’t have that in real life, seeing a healthy family on screen gives them hope. At the end of the day, the storytelling we see is about hope—what we hope to experience, feel, resolve, and change. Hope is a big part of our mental health.

NICOLE

That’s so beautiful. Well, Jeannie, I could talk to you forever, I have so many thoughts, but we do need to wrap it up. I have just a few rapid fire questions for you. Okay? We’ll just start with the first one, which is what was the last thing you watched on TV? So we get to find out what you’re watching right now!

JEANIE CHANG

Ginny’s kitchen. It’s a Korean variety show. I literally watched it right before this interview. And then I got a new one. There’s a new episode. It’s Ginny’s kitchen, season two.  

NICOLE

Are you watching the one with V in it?

JEANIE CHANG

The V was season one. I already watched it. He was in season one.

NICOLE

I’m just laughing because I did watch that show and my husband’s like, ‘This show is like watching paint dry. They’re just making food. Nothing else is happening.’

JEANIE CHANG

You would think so, but it’s something I found therapeutic, but that’s the last one. That’s the last thing I literally saw before I got on this podcast.

NICOLE

Totally, it was relaxing. I love watching them make Korean hot dogs. All right. What’s on your nightstand?

JEANIE CHANG

Oh, my book, actually. And also my uncle’s book, my uncle’s a movie director and it’s in Korean. I haven’t read it. Also my Stanley Cup and my cell phone.

NICOLE

Awesome. Okay. When was the last time you tried something new and what was it?

JEANIE CHANG

Hmm. Well, this is what comes to mind. I just did a TEDx talk.

NICOLE

I saw that. That’s a pretty big ‘something new’.

JEANIE CHANG

Yeah, I think that’s why I’m exhausted, because I was nervous for months leading up to it. I don’t care how much you speak to people, a TEDx talk is different. I had to give my whole life’s work in 10 minutes. I think I made it in 16.

NICOLE

I can’t wait to watch it. Is it up yet?

JEANIE CHANG

It has to go through TEDx screening. So it might take a couple months. But I did it on K-Dramas.

NICOLE

Okay, last one. Easy. What’s the top three most used emojis on your phone?

JEANIE CHANG

Oh, the heart one. And then the sunshine face with sunglasses. I love emojis. I mean, I wish I could invent my own too

NICOLE

I love emojis too. Well, everyone, make sure to get Jeanie’s book and we’re going to link everything to reach her. And Jeanie, thank you so much for coming to The School of Self-Worth. I loved our conversation, and you bring so much joy and passion to what you do. So I appreciate you so much.

Thank you all so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget, if you are a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots, preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you.

So make sure to DM me ‘quiz’ @NicoleTsong on Instagram. And thank you for being here and for listening. We read every note that we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong and this is The School of Self-Worth.