{YCC Alumni Series} Overcoming Burnout and Finding Purpose with Ali Gostanian

• Shifting focus allows you to make life-changing decisions (9:00)
• The importance of learning to regulate emotions (9:50)
• How to let go of rigid expectations and instead experience peace and joy (21:18)
• How a supportive community fosters growth and creativity (23:33)

“In journalism in particular, but just like in life, a lot of us are just thinking reactive is the way. There’s actually a lot of ways to be in life, and you don’t have to be reactive. And once you can really exit that, you can start to see and make your decisions from a totally different place.”

“Once I was able to detach from things and let go of those attachments, I feel much more relaxed in interviews and much more myself.”

“Previously, I had just been burnout, burnout, burnout, which is not a place from which you can be creative and come up with ideas.”

“Sometimes it can be rare to find environments where it’s women supporting other women wholeheartedly. And this was just that environment.”

“By age 30, I wanted to have this title and make this amount of money and really, you know, trying to force things when, unfortunately, that’s not how life works.”

“ So I think that I’ve learned a lot, and it’s been really helpful to think about detachment. And, you know, anytime that I would have a job interview, I would go in it wholeheartedly, but then have to remind myself, like, if this isn’t going to work out, it’s not going to work out. And that’s okay. And we move on to the next step.”

“Being able to stop and pause and force myself to pause and recognize where I was at that moment was really very helpful. I think I used to just make all these rash decisions and get really emotional about decisions because I would be below the line of choice when I was making these decisions. And once I really started to pay attention to those things, I found myself being able to regulate my emotions a lot better, being able to realize kind of where.”

NICOLE

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, and this is my Your Clear Calling Success Series, when I sit down with a few of my remarkable, inspiring past students who share how their lives have been completely transformed by Your Clear Calling. If you’re not already familiar with my signature program, it is the exact step-by-step system for Asian American mission driven women to get promoted in 60 days while working 20% fewer hours, to feel fulfilled and aligned in their work every single day. I am so proud of the women who take on the transformational work of this program.

Today I get to sit down with Ali Gostanian, who came out of YCC and really got all of the next steps for herself in her career. She recently gave notice at her job at NBC News, and what’s coming up next for her is so cool. So make sure you stay tuned so you can hear what she decided to do and what prompted her to make this change. And as you’re listening, if you’re like, “Oh my God, I see myself in Ali, and this is exactly the kind of support that I want for myself.”  DM me ‘promotion’ on Instagram @NicoleTsong and let’s chat. Okay, friends, let’s dive into this remarkable episode.

Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a best-selling author of three books and work/life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

Ali, I’m so excited you’re here with us. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth!

ALI GASTONIAN

Thanks for having me, Nicole.

NICOLE

I’m so excited to have Ali here because she’s a client, an amazing human, and I feel like it’s just a really remarkable journey from what happened at the beginning when we were working together, to where she is now. She has totally changed her life in many ways since we started working together. But before we get to the very fun part of how Allie’s life has transformed, I would love to go back to when we met. You’re probably going to remember the month better than me. It was last summer. Can you just give us a little sketch of  what was happening in your life at that time that you were feeling pretty challenged by?

ALI GASTONIAN

So I think we probably met in July of 2023. I was in the Asian American Journalist Association’s Executive Leadership Program, and Nicole came on for a session to talk about boundaries, work/life balance, and how to keep yourself grounded. And her story really resonated with mine. I mean, I know you talked a lot about your time as a journalist, and how difficult it was, just being in that profession with breaking news and work life, not having any sort of work/life balance, and wanting to do something different, but not necessarily knowing what it was. So it was interesting. Your story really resonated with me because I felt like I had gone through a very similar arc, I had been in this field for a while. I kind of worked my way up the ladder, and I was just feeling burnt out and tired and needing a change, but not knowing where to go. So we connected during that session that Nicole was on for the executive leadership program. Then afterwards, we were DM’ing on Instagram, and she was telling me a bit about some of her programs, and it sounded like something that was really going to be very beneficial for me and very helpful. So, you know, that’s. Then we just started working together from there.

NICOLE

Amazing. Thanks for sharing that. And I’m curious if you could get a little bit into the nitty gritty, a bit of what was happening for you. Were you feeling really stressed about work? Were you feeling like you didn’t want to do this anymore? What exactly was happening for you?

ALI GASTONIAN

Yeah. So I had had a very difficult time, probably about two years or so at that point. I had worked really, really hard to get promoted, and I finally got this big promotion in November of 2021. As an overachiever type, I really, really wanted to impress my boss, especially since I had a new manager at that point, to really show I was very much deserving of this promotion and title, and that I could handle it. So I was just working constantly, constantly, constantly. Then the Russian invasion of Ukraine happened in February 2022, and I found myself working around the clock, late hours, early mornings, weekends – just all the time. I wasn’t even taking breaks throughout the day. I was looking at very difficult content and trying to do my very best as the journalist that I was. Then I got to a point where I literally went on vacation for my birthday. I think my body had been running at a thousand times the speed that it should have been going. And then all of a sudden, I’m on vacation, and I stopped, and I think my body panicked. It literally told me, this is not working. So I’ve been struggling a lot with panic attacks, anxiety and depression from a really hard time with work.

I ended up having to take a leave of absence towards the end of that year, and during that time, I was really trying to figure out, what do I want to do? I was getting to this point in my career where I had gotten this senior title, and wondering what I wanted to do next? Is this something that I like to do still? Is this something that makes me happy? Is this something that stresses me out more? Where do I see myself going from here? And I was having a really difficult time figuring out my path and what I wanted to do. So I ended up applying for the Asian American Journalist Association Executive Leadership Program, which was very transformative in helping me to work through different ways of leading and taking care of myself as a leader.

Then, when Nicole came on and talked to us about managing burnout and boundaries, and all those sorts of things, it hit me as something I was truly needing to do and to really invest in myself. And so we’re talking about the Your Clear Calling program, and it sounded like a great fit to be able to work with all of these amazing women, working through Nicole’s curriculum that she had built, and be able to figure out what it was that was next for me, because I had been continuing in this role, applying for jobs, but not really knowing what I wanted to do. I was looking at other journalism roles, communication roles, and just a whole range of different jobs. I kind of felt like I was throwing all these ideas out there, and I wasn’t having any luck at all.  I was having interviews, and I felt like they were going well, and I was making it to final rounds and that sort of thing. But nothing was really sticking for me.

I really wanted to find something that would stick. And not only stick, but something that was what I wanted to be doing, something that I was excited about, something that I would be passionate about, and also something that could give me a better work/life balance. I wanted to  be able to regulate my nervous system so that I would be able to then figure out what it is that I wanted to do? And then where do I go from there?

NICOLE

Thank you so much for sharing that. I know that was such a challenging period for you to really start working through. And then I’m curious, once you were inside the program, what were you able to discover right away and help yourself with?

ALI GOSTANIAN

Well, the line of choice was a huge thing for me. So for anyone who hasn’t done Nicole’s programs, it’s really the pillar of the Your Clear Calling curriculum. It was all about noticing where your energy levels and your mood were, and seeing, “Okay, am I in a good spot? Am I where I want to be right now? Am I in a positive space? Or do I feel myself dipping into negativity and worry and all of these kinds of negative emotions that really just aren’t helpful in any sense of the word whatsoever?”  So that was really transformative for me, to be able to take notice for myself of where I was at that time, because I think that I tend to be a fairly reactive person. I think, as someone with ADHD, I think reactivity comes with that, almost.

Being able to stop and force myself to pause and recognize where I was in that moment, was very helpful, because of these different strategies.  I used to make all these rash decisions and get really emotional about decisions, because I would be below the line of choice when I was making these decisions. Once I really started to pay attention to those things, I found myself being able to regulate my emotions a lot better, being able to realize where I was, and if I was in a bad place, to just tell myself, “Stop, let’s go bring yourself back up.”

I know one thing that we talked about was music, and how helpful that can be in different settings. So I actually created a playlist called “Getting above the line of choice.” And to this day, it’s still something that I listen to. It’s just a great playlist. It’s a whole wide range of music that I love, and I can always count on it to get me right above again, and then be able to make wise decisions for myself.

NICOLE

You spoke about that particular principle so well, because I feel like one of the things that happens for so many women who come to see me, and I’ve just been working with some new clients, they’re like, “Wow, I’m really reactive all the time.” That seems so normal. I think in journalism in particular, but also in life, a lot of us think reactive is the way. But there’s actually a lot of ways to be in life, and you don’t have to be reactive. And once you can really exit that, you can start to see and make your decisions from a totally different place, which is what people work on in the course, like, “Let me see what’s next. What do I really want to be doing? Do I want to stay in journalism? Do I want to move on?”  And looking at that question for yourself during the course of the six months together, you actually came to a conclusion. What did you see for yourself in that, once you could really stay above the line of choice?

ALI GOSTANIAN

I guess I can talk about the first kind of idea that I had for myself. You know, I found myself in this really positive, motivated, creative space, because I had been focusing so much on prioritizing myself, staying above the line of choice, keeping a routine for myself. So I had actually come up with an entire idea for myself where I was, and I pitched the idea to this big executive, my former employer, where I could develop programming for her journalists to help them onboard properly. I spent a lot of time on this, and I felt myself able to be very creative, and I spoke with a lot of different executives. I felt very confident about myself and my ideas. I came up with the presentation and basically an entire business plan. I workshopped it with a lot of different mentors, and was really proud of myself for being able to come up with this idea, and be able to think through all the ways in which I could execute it.

The executive actually did end up asking for a job with me in that role. Unfortunately, due to the state of the media industry and financial situation, it wasn’t the right time, but it was really exciting for me to be able to have that idea and present it, execute the idea, and be confident in myself, in saying what I wanted. So that was great.

NICOLE

Yeah, that’s amazing. I remember that energy you had at that time, and it wasn’t even so much about getting to that outcome. It was more like being able to generate your life in a totally different way and be the creative force behind what you wanted to do next. Obviously that one didn’t work out, but then afterwards, things still changed for you.

ALI GOSTANIAN

Yeah. I had been thinking about grad school programs for a few years. Actually, more than a few years. I’d say probably since about 2016, 2017. And I was always telling myself, “Oh, this isn’t the right time. This isn’t the right program. Oh, you can do this later.” But finally I said to myself, “You know what? I think now is the right time.”  I had originally planned to hopefully go back to school in probably about a year or so from now, but I ended up going on a tour of this program that I’d been really interested in for a few years. It’s at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, their master’s in international public policy program, which is a master’s program for mid-career professionals. So I went to the campus in Washington, DC, took a tour, and spoke with some admissions folks, as I thought I had passed the admissions deadline at that point, because the official deadline had passed. But they said if I could get the whole application and letters of recommendation and my essays in, within the next two weeks, they would consider me starting in fall 2024.

At that point, it felt right. I had been wanting to leave my current role, but thought that I was going to have to wait on school because I had missed the deadline. Then I realized I actually could get this done. Because of the journalist in me, the tight deadlines always motivate me to get things done quickly, so I was able to get all of my essays, application, letters of recommendation, etc. in within a week and a half. Then, maybe less than a week later, I found out that I got into the program, they gave me scholarship money, and things just felt like they were working out. My husband was able to transfer to their Washington, DC office, and things just finally felt like they were coming into place.

Previously, throughout my career search and my career journey, and this journey for myself, things just hadn’t been falling into place. I would be a finalist, and then I would get rejected for a job, or I would be very ‘meh’ about the job, but thought I would maybe take it, but wasn’t totally sure about myself, and I wasn’t feeling very certain about any one decision I was going to make. And then this presented itself, going back to school, this amazing program, the extended deadline, and everything just kind of felt right and felt like it had been falling into place. And I’ve been wanting to study international public policy and international relations, and pursue further education for a while, and the time just felt right.

NICOLE

Well, I just love that so much for you. I didn’t know about that deadline extension piece of it, so that’s amazing. A lot of what we work on in the course is, when are we going to be in synchronicity? How do we start to let things come to us, instead of us forcing stuff to happen? And that was such a good example, because I remember at the end of Your Clear Calling, we were like, “Okay, Ali, how can you let the things happen, let the flow happen?” And then totally, it clicked into place!  I love that so much for you. Because now, right within the last week, you’ve moved to DC, and started this new adventure.

ALI GOSTANIAN

It’s great. And the thing I had worked on a lot while in Your Clear Calling, was this idea of attachment. I am the kind of person that very much likes to try and be in control of my life, as much as possible. Starting from a young age, I had this whole plan for myself. I was going to do this, this and this, and then by age 30, I wanted to have this title and make this amount of money and really try to force things, when unfortunately, that’s not how life works. So I think that I’ve learned a lot, and it’s been really helpful to think about attachment. Anytime that I would have a job interview, I would go into it wholeheartedly, but have to remind myself that if it wasn’t going to work out, that’s okay, we move on to the next step.

So I think that’s something I’ve held onto very much in being able to, as my mom always said, let it go and just relax a little bit and realize you can’t control life. And then when things are meant to work out, they will work out for themselves.

NICOLE

Well, how did that practice of detachment help your mental state when you were doing it?

ALI GOSTANIAN

Oh, it was so helpful. When I was going into interviews, super attached to things, I felt very, very nervous. I felt like I was rehearsing my answers over and over again, and I needed to get this job. I needed to get this job so that I could leave my current role, and was putting way too much pressure on myself. It got to the point where my mental health wasn’t great, I wasn’t sleeping well. I was just really on edge all the time. And that’s not a way to live life, you know? I already had a very stressful job being a journalist, and then to add my own personal stresses on top of it where I was literally making myself feel sick, was not going to be productive whatsoever for me.

Once I was able to detach from things and let go of those attachments, I felt much more relaxed in interviews and much more myself. More creative and able to come up with different ideas for myself, whereas I think that previously had just been total burnout, which is not a place from which you can be creative and come up with ideas.

NICOLE

Yeah. So well said. I am really celebrating you being in that practice, because I know we were working on that detachment for the last couple of months, and look, that’s what actually starts to generate. And I know sometimes it can be so hard, especially when we have our Asian family pressure and have to figure that out. You know, you get super attached and then you’re like, “nope.”  It’s actually when you release it that you can make progress and have your life open up.

Since this occurred, I can just see it in your face, you’re just so much happier and things are progressing in ways that are so awesome. I’m just super celebrating you for that, Ali.

What would you say it was like, working with that group of women that you were with during Your Clear Calling?

ALI GASTONIAN

It was amazing. Being able to have a community of like-minded women who are also really striving to improve themselves and be the best versions of themselves. I think being able to have that support system and realizing that what we were going through, others were going through, and it was very much relatable, and we could bounce ideas off of each other, which was just really amazing.

It was a great environment and so supportive, because sometimes it can be rare to find environments where it’s women supporting other women, wholeheartedly. I was able to learn so much from the different women in the group, and definitely developed some strong bonds.

NICOLE

Well, I just love seeing you all thrive and support each other, and just doing such incredible things in the world. Thank you so much Ali, for sharing your experience and your story, and now I’ve got a few fast action questions for you, if you’re up for it. Okay, first question. I know you’ve been moving, but what was the last thing you watched on TV?

ALI GOSTANIAN

Veep. I was literally watching it right before we recorded. It’s one of those comfort TV shows, which sounds strange because it’s about a pretty intense topic, but it’s one of those shows that I’ve watched over and over, and I’ve probably memorized most of it, and I laugh at the same jokes in it every single time I watch it.

NICOLE

Well, Julia Louise Dreyfus is so funny in that role. I love Veep, too. I was so sad when it ended. Okay, all right, next question. What’s on your nightstand?

ALI GOSTANIAN

Well, I just put together a nightstand, actually. I got a nightstand yesterday, so it’s a good thing that I actually have a nightstand right now! Let’s see. I have a lamp. I have one of those sunrise lamps there that wakes you up with that natural feeling of sunlight. I think I have a photo of my husband and me in France. And then at night, my phone.

NICOLE

Beautiful. Love it. All right. When was the last time you tried something new? And what was it?

ALI GASTONIAN

Oh. Hmm. Something new. Gotta think about this one.  I just moved to DC, and I’ve been in New York since I was in college, since 2011. So being able to move to a new city is fun and exciting, and I’m just really excited to be able to get to know a new city.

NICOLE

That’s a pretty big new one. Okay, last one. What are your top three most used emojis on your phone?

ALI GASTONIAN

Okay, let’s see. So the laughing emoji, which I feel like is pretty basic, the red heart, and then there’s one where it’s a smiley face with a tear coming down, which is like my sarcastic one that I like to use.

NICOLE

So funny. Well, Ali, I love your growth and expansion and everything that you’ve done since being in the course. I am so excited to see you shine in this coming year at Johns Hopkins, and doing your masters. It’s going to be so incredible.

Thank you so much for sharing your story with everyone listening from the School of Self-Worth. I know that they got so much from hearing your growth and journey too.

ALI GASTONIAN

Thanks for having me, Nicole. It’s been great.

NICOLE

Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget, if you are a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast, intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you, so make sure to DM me ‘quiz’ @ NicoleTsong on Instagram.

We read every note that we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m NicoleTsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.