Owning Your Authentic Voice with Judy Tsuei

• Finding safe places to be your true self (22:15)
• The power of language in shaping self-worth and personal narrative (15:11)
• Intergenerational trauma can be healed (31:46)
• You are worth the investments into yourself (44:33)

“Even though I was getting those messages when I was very young, I remember having the sense of knowing that all of this stuff was happening for a reason and that it would play a positive role in my life later on, that I would be able to make something out of it and help someone. And I can’t explain how I knew that it wasn’t like a survival mechanism, like my eating disorder was a survival mechanism. This was a deep, deep knowing. And then from there, I think that as I developed an eating disorder and then ran all the way to the other side of the world and tried to run away from myself and found out, oh, there I am still.”

“Whenever I read a book and something has expressed something that I’ve been trying to articulate in my own mind, it’s so liberating. It’s so freeing. Just like, ‘oh, my gosh, that’s it.’”

“The story that you tell yourself creates your reality, and that’s usually what we’re saying in our minds and becomes our mindset. And the story that you tell others becomes that shared reality that you’re living in. And then if you can articulate even bigger of whatever it is that you’re asking for from the universe, that’s where so much more magic happens.”

“The thing that has most helped me over the last year has been grief journaling. And I think that for a lot of us, I know, me in particular, I was never told. Well, I was never taught about how to handle any emotions, much less grief. And I think grief is one of those things, culturally and societally, that we are not taught how to really handle well.”

“If you came from a community of color … speaking up and being seen within the majority can feel really scary. Just give yourself the props of  ‘Hey, I’m trying. I’m doing.’”

NICOLE

Hello, friends. Welcome back to the School of Self-Worth. I am your host, Nicole Tsong, and I just love the conversation with our guest today.  Judy Tsuei and I met through a community of powerful Asian American women, and her journey from her twenties when she had her experience in her life, to own her self-worth, going from having an eating disorder to now being a mom and a writer and an entrepreneur, it just really resonated with me so deeply. And I know so many pieces of her story will also touch you as well. She is the founder of Wild Hearted Words, a powerful strategic branding and content marketing agency, and she’s the author of the Little Book of Tibetan Rites and Rituals. And then this one is so fun…. she’s also the host of the F*ck Saving Face podcast, empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans by breaking through taboo topics and driving real conversations about diversity, equity and inclusion, using the power of storytelling. You do not want to miss out on this conversation. I loved it so much. And if you’re an ambitious Asian American woman who wants to master her mind and emotions so she can manifest a promotion in 60 days and live the life of her dreams, dm me dreams on Instagram, I have got something for you.

All right, friends, let’s dive into this conversation with Judy. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a best-selling author of three books and work/life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy.

Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough. Well, Judy, welcome to the School of Self-Worth. I’m so excited to have you join us.

JUDY TSUEI

I’m so excited that you do a whole podcast about self-worth. I think that especially for Asian Americans and any child of immigrants, I feel like this is a very, almost like new and nuanced subject to explore, even well into adulthood, for sure.

NICOLE

I feel that it is always again like this journey that you’re on. And sometimes we get into this place where we think, well, I’ll just somehow have it at the end of the rainbow and it’ll be done. And I’m like, well, it just never really works that way. Which is why I think it’s so awesome to have women like you come on. And we can be in the continuing conversation of that. So I know it’s always a big topic when I ask this question, but I’d love to hear from you, Judy. Where did you start to have the awareness? I always feel like it starts with the awareness of, “I don’t have self-worth.” Like, where do you feel like that began for you? And then we can kind of start our conversation from there.

JUDY TSUEI

You know, what’s interesting is while I say that, and I know, my human self has definitely struggled with elements of self-worth, because I grew up the eldest of four children in a tiger-parented home. And, you know, not only did they do the traditional authoritarian parenting things of, “You need to get A+’s, and why aren’t you as good as this other person?” But I think in addition to that, I realized that my parents very much were ill-equipped to be parents. I think that they are better with adults and adult children, but they were ill-equipped to handle us. And they had four of us. Me being the eldest also, I was not the typical, submissive, docile and quiet one. I was naturally louder. I laughed loud. I just was a kid and wanted to take up space. And so my mom, my parents and my extended family relatives, they would tell me that I was super selfish. They would tell me that they regret that I was ever born, that they don’t know why they had me, and that who cares about what I was doing and how worthless I was. So I was getting those messages from a very early age. And even though I was getting those messages when I was very young, I remember having the sense of knowing that all of this stuff was happening for a reason, and that it would play a positive role in my life later on, that I would be able to make something out of it and help someone. And I can’t explain how I knew that; it wasn’t like a survival mechanism, like my eating disorder was a survival mechanism. This was a deep, deep knowing. And then from there, I think that as I developed an eating disorder and then ran all the way to the other side of the world, and tried to run away from myself and found out, “Oh, there I am still.” Shoot, I came all the way back, and when I was dealing with it, I found journals of when I was very young, (my mom wanted us to keep journals to practice our English).

So from seven years old on, I would say up until I was in high school or even probably, college, I was finding the same entries over and over of how I need to be better. Why does everybody hate me? You know, “I’m not good enough, I’m not worthy.” So when I saw that in my twenties, as I was going through therapy and finally dealing with all of these things, it really was right there in black and white. “Oh, my gosh, I have a self-worth issue. I really need to work on this, and I’ve had it for a very long time.”

NICOLE

Thank you for sharing all of those pieces. And I’d love to kind of go through that journey a little bit, and especially that part where you’re saying, “I feel like it’s a journey for Asian American culture in particular.” And I’m curious, you know, there’s so many shades to this, right? There’s no one absolute experience with it. But if you feel like, especially in the way that you grew up, the way that your parents kind of taught you and did things, if self-worth had to do more with them being happy, than with you being happy? Because there can be that, especially the collective, I think group harmony experience can be a big suppression of self-worth, especially as a kid, and I’m curious what you think about that?

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah, I think that I was definitely a truth-teller growing up, and so nobody wanted to hear the truth of how dysfunctional our family and our extended family was. And so it was definitely an opportunity to quash that and not have to deal with it. To my father’s credit, especially, he has grown so much, and he’s in his mid- to late seventies now. And just watching his emotional self-development, even now, has been such an inspiring journey to see. It’s never too late. You can  and will, hopefully always continue to learn and grow. And so he’s okay with discomfort now. He’s okay with having to reflect upon those things now, but not everybody’s going to go through that. I think it was very performative. It was very, “How do we keep the peace?” It was very much them being so involved in their own trauma of their marriage and their stress about financial worries, that there was no room for us to have any additional stressor on their lives.

NICOLE

So you guys were just there to not be a problem, is what it sounds like?

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah. I packed my siblings lunches. I did all the school things, translated for my grandmother,  all of the things. And so I often look at my daughter, who is nine, and wonder, “Oh, my gosh, is that what a childhood is like?” Because that’s phenomenal. Also to allow her to express openly and have those emotions, is both beautiful and freeing. Triggering is not the right word, but just definitely a difficult place to be sometimes, because it reminds me of how I wasn’t able to do that when I was young. Is someone going to think something of this feeling that she’s having and that I’m not reining her in and immediately telling her to be quiet?  So it’s a constant growth.

NICOLE

Yes, for sure. I definitely am with you on that. Well, I’m curious then, too. You know, you spoke about where you feel the connection between self-worth and your eating disorder came in. Were they connected?

JUDY TSUEI

Absolutely. I think that’s interesting because my sister also developed an eating disorder. It was never anything that we talked about. And in the beginning, it was anorexia. So it was very prominent and noticeable. I used to go to Chinese school every Saturday, and in our culture, nobody really talked about feelings or whatever, but I was getting to a point where I was very much counting every single calorie and doing everything I could to expend calories. My Chinese school was at my junior high, which was maybe like a mile and a half down the road, so instead of going to school with my mom and my siblings, because my mom was a Chinese school teacher,  I ran to school. Then my Chinese teacher pulled me aside and asked, “What is wrong with you?” I was like, “What are you talking about?” And she’s like, “You’ve lost so much weight. Are you okay?” Of course, I brushed it off, but it was shocking to me that this woman would actually take the initiative to say this, because she was another teacher who my mom knew, and my parents weren’t saying anything about this. So in the beginning, it was very much about control, trying to control the chaos. Then when I ran all the way to the other side of the world, I was very heavily into bulimia. And I always say that bulimia is a very angry expression. It’s very violent. You’re binging and you’re purging and just doing this very violent act on your body, but just trying to handle all of these feelings that are so difficult.

When I came back from China, and I started dealing with it in this intensive outpatient program, I just started seeing how many other people suffered from it. It was predominantly always women. I was the only Asian person in the room. I would say the majority, like ¾, had all experienced sexual trauma in some way. And everyone was the kindest, smartest, most sensitive, creative, wonderful human who just could not grapple with the way that life had been handed to them. And sometimes it was very severe things that had happened, or just that they hadn’t been taught healthier coping mechanisms for understanding. Like, “I can take care of myself in better ways, and there are better ways to do this.” So it was very difficult and just so sad. I feel like anyone who I’ve ever known who’s had an eating disorder, has always just been so intelligent, caring, kind and sensitive. And I think the world doesn’t value sensitivity or acknowledge that there are different ways of being in the world, and I think everybody just finds a way to cope in the end.

NICOLE

Yeah. Well, thank you for bringing this here and sharing so openly about it, because I do think that talking about it makes such a difference. And one thing you’ve been saying repeatedly, is about feelings and suppression of feelings. Where would you say, for yourself, you started learning to feel? Because I’m also from Taiwanese Chinese cultured background, and we just don’t even talk about having feelings. It’s just not even an acknowledgement, whether you have feelings or don’t have feelings. My mom would often have expressions of anger, but she wouldn’t talk about being angry, she would just yell. Then my dad would have no emotional things happening at all on his side. And so, as a kid, I was just the opposite of you. I was the quiet kid, and my sister was older and was the loud one. I think I cried a lot, and I remember they used to tell me I was really sensitive, I think, because I cried a lot. And I was like, well, I wasn’t sensitive. I was just a kid you know, and when you’re a kid, you cry.

So if you could talk a little bit more about how, for yourself, feeling emotions played into it. And I even think of it this way, it’s like you have to have self-worth almost, to have emotions. Like, when you’re a kid, you don’t, because you have self-worth as a kid. You’re just like, I’m here! But when you’re older, could you talk about that, interplay a little bit for yourself?

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah. It was fascinating when I was in my intensive outpatient program, that the therapist was like, “Okay, so what do you feel?” I’m like, “Well, what are you talking about?” And she was like, ” here’s a feelings list.” And I under each column there were all these synonyms, sad, angry, etc., and I was like, “Wait, what? You can feel all of these feelings underneath each emotion?” I think not being able to have a voice when you’re growing up makes it really hard to advocate for your own self-worth, and to even understand that that’s a possibility. I remember listening to NPR when my daughter was born, and hearing the story that if a child isn’t given the appropriate name for the private parts of their body, then they can’t ever own it. And if they can’t own it, they can’t defend it, and they can’t protect themselves. And so from a very early age, I used the words like, vagina, vulva, anus. It was really weird to have those words come out of my mouth, because those were not things that we talked about either, growing up. But I just remembered she needed the words to be able to say it, so she could protect herself and defend herself and advocate for herself. And so, as a writer, I’ve been told repeatedly when I would publish articles all the time, people would email me and say, “You were able to put into words things that I was feeling, but I didn’t know how to express.” And I feel whenever I read a book and something has expressed something I’ve been trying to articulate, in my own mind, it’s so liberating. It’s so freeing. Just like, “Ooh, my gosh, that’s it.” Or that you’re not alone, that somebody else has also gone through it. I think those things are really important.

So a lot of my journey has been because I have this gift of being able to articulate things and to do it in writing. I do it in writing. And the ways that people reach out to me and thank me for the content, I know is my way of being of service. And for my daughter, being able to give her the sentences and the sentence stems to say things to me, helps encourage her self-worth, because then she has the ability and the language to do it. So I know for me, I grew up with tiger parents who are not okay with feelings, so my face becomes very stern sometimes when there’s something that’s displeasing to me. I’m one of those people who wears their emotions on her sleeve. So my daughter would say to me, “I’m having feelings right now. You’re making that face. Please don’t make that face, because it’s like making things worse.” So then I would tell her, “You can say to me, I need more compassion right now, or I need this right now…” And so she would use that with me, and it would snap me out of that face and make me realize, “Oh, that’s right. I’m dealing with a human being right here, and she is advocating for herself. So let me remind myself about that.” And it helped so much. So I think a lot of it is just the practice, even if you’re not a writer, of journaling, giving yourself some space and room to articulate whatever it is.

I just met a friend to go to the farmer’s market, and she was saying she was trying to manifest these things. And I think a lot of times when we manifest, we want to manifest the big goals, the big revenue markers, or the house, or the things. For her, she was like, “Is it silly if I just want to write, like, the small things?” And I don’t think so. I think if you give yourself permission to ask, that is one step closer to validating that you’re worthy and that you are deserving. I would also say that culturally, I can see the difference, because my partner is a white male, and the way that he moves through the world is very, very different from the way that I move through the world, even in our relationships. So I’ve had to tell him, for me to get to a place to even say out loud a desire or a request, or whatever. I’ve already had to go through multiple layers of telling myself that harmony is more important, or that is more important. And it’s been a practice, and it continues to be a practice. Sometimes you’ll find people who are safe to do that with, and sometimes you won’t. So, you know, I just did a podcast interview where I said, “Allow yourself to interview the therapist because you have a right to find someone who’s a good fit. Just because they have a credential behind their name doesn’t mean that they’re going to be the right fit for you.” I had plenty of therapists who said terrible things that were not helpful to me during my healing journey. And so similarly, in life, we’re going to find people who we practice this with, and it’s not going to work well, and then other people who we practice it with, and it’s going to be great. Or sometimes someone will even be able to intuit, or read, or offer that for you. And if that opportunity comes up, I highly recommend you dipping your toe in there and saying, “Okay, let’s try this out. I’m going to be uncomfortable and vulnerable, but let’s try it out.”

NICOLE

And you brought up something so interesting that I’ve never connected before in this way, or we haven’t talked about on the podcast this way. And I’m also a writer, but when we have the self-worth to put language to our emotions and our feelings, the step is to identify them and then put language to it, that’s when you actually start to create your life in a totally different way. And I always think of language as that powerful creator. But just the way you link them, that’s freedom, right? To be able to feel. Not only feel, but put some words to feelings. And then once you learn to put the words to feelings, then you can actually now use that language to propel your life in a totally different way. And so thank you for saying that.

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah, because I think that’s such a by law conversation. I would always say that the story that you tell yourself creates your reality, and that’s usually what we’re saying in our minds and becomes our mindset. And the story that you tell others becomes that shared reality that you’re living in. And then if you can articulate even bigger whatever it is that you’re asking for from the universe, that’s where so much more magic happens, but it takes so much practice. And I think it’s why I love reading memoirs and really well written works, where the language that’s coming through is just a really distinct voice, because then I’m able to say, okay, so that person’s voice is like this, and that person’s voice is like that, well, how do I want to sound? And in the beginning, it could be some sort of, like, mimicry or echoing, and then you get to develop your own voice, which is really great.

NICOLE

I love reading for similar reasons. I like memoir, but I like lots of different things because I’m always fascinated by what comes out of people’s brains. They created this whole world just from their mind, you know? And I’m sure it related to their life experience, but it’s always so cool to sit back and just get to immerse myself in this person’s brain for the length of this book. And it’s such a pleasure. It’s so much fun to do that.

Just going back to your self-worth journey, obviously you had a big healing journey in your twenties. What would you say then? Where is there any kind of new turning point for you being able to have self-worth? Leverage it in your career? Because a lot of the women listening are corporate women. Some of them are like, “I really want to get ahead in my corporate career.” Whilst others are wanting to leave. That self-worth journey in there can be really intense, you know, especially when you’re trying to figure out, “Do I want to stay? Do I want to go? Is this worth it? What do I really want from my life?” And could you share a little bit more about that from your perspective?

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah. So I was in corporate for a very long time, and then I started freelancing, and that afforded me the opportunity to go into a lot of different environments. I think that for anybody who’s worked in a company long enough, a lot of companies seem really put together on the outside, but then when you get on the inside, you’re like, “Wait, what? How did this company get to this place and get to these revenue markers?” So I think once I started peeling back the curtains there and peeling back the curtains to myself, I was like, “Wait a minute. Now I’m getting clear about what makes me happy, what doesn’t make me happy.” Thankfully, I was able to work as a consultant for a year and a half, two years, and make enough money that I could take the next few years to go to intense therapy, become a yoga teacher and become a holistic practitioner. And those are things that I innately always wanted to do, but I didn’t give myself the opportunity to do it because it didn’t seem like that was on the tried and true career path. When I found yoga as part of my return from living in China, I just remember bringing my hands to my heart center and feeling like, “Oh my gosh, that feels very much like coming home.”

So I embarked on that, and it was really uncomfortable to have an eating disorder, to not feel comfortable in your body, to be in these positions and poses. But the breath, and I always would equate this because I’m very good at teaching beginners, so people will come to my classes, and I would just encourage them to understand that their breath is the opportunity to connect to the present moment. If you can bring all of your awareness to your inhalation, balanced by your exhalation, you automatically drop into this present moment. And in this moment, right here, right now, as you’re listening to this podcast, in this moment, you’re safe. Which took me a long time to get to. There was a point in therapy when my therapist had said all of those stories that you have, that feel like they’re going to catch up with you or that you’re running away from, or whatnot, as you’re sitting here in this room right now, in this room, you’re safe. So as I started to understand the power of the breath, which we all have, that it’s autonomic, it’s going to be automatic, you don’t have to think about it, but you can also manipulate it, lengthen or shorten it. That was a really wonderful kind of connection to that, and movement, and really brought me into the present moment.

So as I started to teach yoga, I started to see people’s responses to my teaching, to me returning to the sense of innate ability and power. When I became a Reiki practitioner, I remember helping my grandmother, hitting her back so that she would burp out, like massaging her. And those weren’t things that anybody taught me, but just from a very young age, I saw the power of touch and how healing it could be, and how connective. So when I became a Reiki practitioner, I was like, “This also feels like a very natural extension. It’s me coming home.” And then when we had to practice on the other person in the room, the other person was like, “You’ve done this before?”  I said, “No, we’re at the same level of beginning learning.” And she’s like, “No, no, no, no. Because whatever it is that you’re doing, is different from what I’m doing.” So I think starting to see that response and starting to see people feeling better from being around me, from taking a class with me, from me coming around and doing Reiki while they were in Shavasana, or just a gentle adjustment. I would never manipulate anybody’s body because I didn’t know their body story, but I would just maybe gently place my hand to encourage them to bring their awareness to that part of their body. And just the amount of growth that the classes had and just how transformed people were when they left the room, I was thinking, “Okay, so what my family told me when I was younger was not true, because I’m returning to all these things that felt very natural to me, that I really had always wanted to do, but they always told me I wasn’t valuable, I wasn’t worthy, and I didn’t know what I was talking about. Who would want to pay attention?

Basically, I was made to feel like the worst person ever. In fact, Brene Brown describes shame as imagining that you’re in a room with all the people who you think are your friends and your family and who you love. Then you walk out of the room and you’re within earshot distance, and you can hear them all talking crap about you. It’s so bad, to the point that you cannot even imagine ever being able to walk back into that room again. That was literally my childhood. Actively my childhood. That wasn’t an analogy. That’s what I experienced. And my family all knew what they were doing. They knew I could hear them, which made it even worse. It was their form of parenting. So I think once I started to see, in my lived experience, this story that was unfolding was very different from the one that I was told. Then I started realizing, “Wait a minute. I actually do add value to this situation, and people do want to be around me.” And it was a roundabout way to get to what I think I needed to understand and what I needed to learn, which I think is another valuable lesson, is that it never looks the way that you think it’s going to look. It just doesn’t. You can do your best and have these visions, but I feel like you’re doing a dance with the universe. There are opportunities that start to show up that can bring you to where you want to go in a more enriching kind of way.

NICOLE

Thank you for sharing all of that. I have a similar journey to you, and I really relate to it, because when I became a yoga teacher also, you are seen, right? You’re standing in front of the room, and you become seen, and then you start to recognize that there is something to see, that it’s okay, you shouldn’t have to hide in the back. For me, being the quiet Asian kid, it was always like me hiding in the back….there’s nothing to see here. And then to step in front and not be shamed, like you said, and not being, “She doesn’t know what she’s doing. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about,” which is what I was always afraid would happen. But what actually happened is,  “Oh, that made me feel better.” It’s such a lightbulb, right? And it’s always so interesting I think, when any human gets to that point of recognizing and realizing what that self-worth piece is, like, “There is something to see here, and there’s actually something good to see here. It’s not just like, if I get there, they’re going to be like, something is wrong with this person.” So I loved what you said about that and shared about it, because I think it’s a really important piece to understand. I like to think of self-worth as independent of what other people think, but other people can definitely help you get to that point.

JUDY TSUEI

I love that you said, “recognize it”, because I was going to bring that up. Did you experience this in class, too, when you were teaching, that the expressions on people’s faces made it seem like, “Are they not enjoying this? They might not really be liking this?” But then at the end, they were like, “Oh, my gosh, that was so great.” And it was such a valuable lesson of, you never know what anybody’s thinking. You never know what’s going on in anybody’s house.

NICOLE

You never know.

JUDY TSUEI

Yeah, you mustn’t take it personally. And their praise is just as important as any constructive feedback, or whatnot. You know, that it’s not about me necessarily. We’re all on our journey, so I just always find that so interesting, that you never know. You just have no idea.

NICOLE

Well, it’s like a two-part process, right? Because they can help you start to be seen and hold your self-worth. Then you have to hold your self-worth independent of their faces, or the person in the corner who’s not doing what you’re saying at all, because there’s always those people. And if you’re one of those people listening, “Hi. We always see you” It’s so true, then you can hold who you are, regardless of their experience. And I think of that in coaching, too, all the time.  I’m like, “I hold who I am whether you have a good experience or not, or whatever is going on with you.”

It’s so important to get to that really anchored space, but it is a whole process. It is a whole journey, and I think you and I just have had some similar places where we’ve learned those lessons. And then I’m curious for you, where did that go from there? Once you got that grounding into your self-worth through that teaching practice, and where has it allowed you to go from there?

JUDY TSUEI

I think it was a great foundation to taking the life that I want to build and continuing to cultivate it. So I’m working on a book right now, about totally doing the opposite of what any good Chinese girl should do. I did the opposite of every rule. Sometimes it was intentional, but not always. But ultimately, what I’ve been able to see is, “Okay, well, I’m going to figure out what is important to me and cultivate a life rooted in that, because the things that are important to me are not going to be the same things that are important to everybody else.”

I live in a very affluent neighborhood, so it’s really easy to get caught up in the comparison game. Well, that person’s driving that car, and that person’s living in that house and all this kind of stuff. I’m over here, divorced mom, renting this great spot down the street from my daughter’s school, walking distance to the beach. But does it look like what I thought? You know? So there’s always those old echoes. You should buy multiple properties by now. You should have done this and done that. And then I think about time, freedom being one of my most important core values in business, and being able to dictate my own schedule, because if I don’t and I have to be told I’m supposed to be somewhere, then it makes me feel caged in and blocked, and I don’t think that serves anyone well.

But when creating your own time, freedom also comes with the other set of responsibilities, challenges and risks. You’ve got to be doing lead gen for your business. You’ve got to make sure that you’re paying your team members, and all of these other things. It’s a trade-off. But I would rather choose that hard, than this hard of having to be in that space. The other part is I’m a divorced mom, so already half my time with my daughter is spent with her dad, and we don’t have a great relationship, so I’m not talking to her every day when she’s there, and I don’t know what she’s doing when she’s there, for the most part. So I really try to honor the time that we have together, especially because of the relationship I had with my parents, I want to make sure that I’m doing it differently, and healing intergenerational trauma, which takes so much energy and effort. But because of that, that’s the priority that I have, being able to spend the time with her and make sure I create these opportunities that I think are meaningful and valuable. It also involves a different kind of hard. She has an extroverted personality. I’m very introverted. So for me to rally myself to be able to be present for her, is also a different game.

But those are the things where the more I understand my self-worth, the more I understand and get to define what makes me happy and what brings fulfillment. I think happy is overused, like, “Happily ever after.” I think being at peace has become something that I very much treasure, and being content. Those things I feel are so valuable. And being at peace doesn’t sound sexy when you’re younger, but when you grow older, being at peace feels so good. You’re like, “I don’t have this guilt, and I don’t have that.” I think for any entrepreneur or anybody working a job where they want to get ahead, high-achieving, then you have to advocate for yourself. You have to tout what it is that you’re good at, how you can be of service and how you can support others.

If you came from a community of color, you’re probably not used to speaking up, because speaking up and being seen within the majority can feel really scary. So there are all these things that we are learning, but to even just give yourself the props of, “Hey, I’m trying. I’m doing.” There’s this practice my daughter’s godmother sent to me, and every day I look in the mirror – and this was already something I had to do with my therapist – she’s like, “I want you to brush your teeth and give yourself 25 positive attributes.” Which when I said this, people were “25! that’s a lot.”  I’ve gotten used to it now, and I can do it looking into my own eyes. But this next exercise was, you look into your eyes and say, “I love you.” And then the next thing is, “How can I make you happy today?” And being able to ask that question, even if I don’t fully know the answer, has led to just a great feeling that I’m even allowing myself to ask that question!

NICOLE

You said so many important things. Like, what is it that you really value? Because I feel sometimes when you’re an achiever, like you and I obviously both are, that we just go for something because you think you’re supposed to, this is just the goal. You’re just going to gun it. Then you go all in, super hard. It means you usually get it, but then you get there and you’re like, “What was that for?” There’s that piece of it. So I love how you value your time, freedom, fulfillment and peace. I always think about that for myself, in life and in my entrepreneurial journey. That’s really what I’m going for, not just big revenue numbers. Then the other piece of what you’re saying, you had so many good things, there was the values piece, and then there’s the piece around just being able to be in your life in a way that’s not in comparison all the time. I feel like that self-worth journey is, again, continuous. Also what you were saying about being a person of color, it can be really challenging for us to speak up. I think that’s where the self-worth piece is so important. Knowing that you do have something to say and sometimes people can force it. I feel like you can go into that super dominant, constantly trying to get a word in all the time. And I’m like, you don’t have to be like that either. You can just be confident that when the moment comes, and you can follow your intuition, you can just say what you need to say and get in and out. That’s what I’m always looking for.

It’s like, how can you be yourself fully and have that self-worth? To be yourself fully so that you can be yourself with work, in your relationships, dating, anything that you’re going through, so that you can just feel on the other side of it. You’re like, “I was me the whole time. What was my goal? Was I Nicole?” And then I love the question you ask about ‘how can I make her happy today?’ Like, “Was I happy in how I executed today? Was I happy in what I gave? Was I happy in the places I held back because I needed more for myself today?”  I love the questions that you presented for us.

JUDY TSUEI

I love how you said the energy in which you show up in the room makes such a difference. And I think that the most powerful people are those who know how to harness their energy and how to have it emanate in a way that doesn’t need to be forceful or pushy, but that it’s attraction based. I think, for people who don’t really understand energy or just not into it, I would say we’ve all walked into a room before where you can feel the tension and you’re like, “Something’s off here, or something happened between these people” or whatnot. That is energy. So if you can palpably feel that, and that’s just us being in whatever state we’re being in, then if we can find that inner confidence and that ability to just be exactly who we are, exactly who we want to be, then that emanates so much more loudly than anything that we could say. As a writer as well, I’ve interviewed thousands upon thousands of people, and then I’ve turned those interviews into stories and published pieces, etc. And over and over again, I’ve heard from interviewees, “That was the best interview that I’ve ever had, that I’ve ever done.” Or when they read the piece, “Oh, my gosh, that was the best piece that I’ve ever had written about me. How did you articulate that? That’s exactly what I wanted to say.” I always say that it’s because I can feel what it is that they’re trying to communicate to me. I’m less listening to the words that they’re saying, versus what I can feel their heart actually wants to convey. And because of that, that’s what I draw forward. That’s what I ask about, what I dive into, and then that’s what I translate into the article. When you allow yourself to tap into those nuances and the subtler levels, that can be so profound and it’s widely underestimated. That rapport building and that ability to hold space for yourself and then hold space for someone else has led to the most remarkable connections that I’ve ever had. I think sometimes it’s funny, if I ever thought about looking through the names that are in my contacts list, that it would be pretty wild, and that I know I could call those people and they would remember who I am, based on the time that we shared. So again, there are many paths to get to where you want to go.

NICOLE

It’s so true. And I love what you’re saying, because I feel like once you’re more tuned into who you are and your self-worth, you actually then can tune in more to the energy of what’s happening in the room and other people, because you’re not worried about what they think of you. You’re just like, “Well, I’m me, and I’m here to see what’s going on with all of you.” Then you get insights and things from being in that anchored space.

Well, you gave us so many really great tips. Is there one for people who are really working on that self-journey? Is there one practice or one tip you would give them to start working on today?

JUDY TSUEI

I would say the thing that has helped me most over the last year, has been grief journaling. I was never taught how to handle any emotions, much less grief, and I think grief is one of those things, culturally and societally, that we are not taught how to really handle well. Again, a lot of people don’t have the words to articulate, like when I tell people, “you don’t know what it’s like to be a parent until you become one”, because I just don’t think that there’s any way to truly fully convey the reality that shifts. And similarly, I’ve had other people tell me, “You don’t know what it’s like to lose a parent until you’ve lost one.” That crevasse that opens, no matter what your relationship was, just something happens, and that shifts.

So I think for grief, and especially for those of us who are raised in situations that maybe weren’t healthy, that were toxic, that were abusive, or have been in relationships that were not the best, or didn’t unfold the way that we wanted them to. Having the ability to do a grief journal, once I found that, I process through that, through the stream of consciousness journal, it opens up space for the things that I’ve already cultivated and are already around me. The joy, the love, the relationships, to land deeper and to feel more worthy in receiving of the goodness, because I’ve stopped pushing away the good stuff for fear that this other stuff is actually true or defines me somehow. So there’s just this conflicting thing that’s happened. So with the grief journaling, the way that my therapist had told me, is get a journal that represents the person or the relationship that you are grieving, something that feels resonant. With that, you set a timer, and you start at, like, 10 minutes, and if you can go to 15 or 20 minutes, and you do stream of consciousness journaling, nonstop, even if you’re writing, I don’t know what to write, I don’t know why I’m doing this, like, blah, blah, blah ….. eventually something will come through, and you just allow for it to come through, and the second that timer goes off, you stop whatever it is that you’re doing, you get up and you move your body. You go get grounded. You jump up and down, or put a song on, start dancing, and just move it. And then that’s it. But try to do it a few times a week and then see what happens.

When I tried it, I did not think that the effect would be as remarkable as it was. Even if it didn’t make sense. I wasn’t going back through and looking at those journals, and I didn’t feel like every single time I was getting into something deep. But I think making space and carving out space for all of those potentially shadowy, negative, whatever it is that you just need to get out of you, somehow does some magic, and it’s transformative, and then you allow the good stuff in more, and it’s been great.

NICOLE

That’s so incredible. I hope everyone takes her advice and does that. Getting into that journaling and really allowing your space for that. Well, Judy, it’s been such a delight to have you on. And we like to end with rapid fire questions. So are you ready?

JUDY TSUEI

Yes, I’m totally ready.

NICOLE

Okay, so first one is, what is the last thing you watched on TV?

JUDY TSUEI

I was having a case of ‘the Monday’, so I put on a movie in the background, with Jamie Foxx, and it was something about the jury and Tommy Lee Jones. I’m not even sure about the name, but it was good also to pick me up all the time. I tend to have Modern Family on when I’m doing the dishes or whatever. The writing is so good and just so heartwarming, so I just have that on to make myself feel better.

NICOLE

I love that, put it on in the background, some Modern Family. Awesome. Next, what is on your nightstand right now?

JUDY TSUEI

It’s a hand drawn picture of myself and my daughter that her surf instructor drew for me, as a surprise gift, because she had just graduated from college, and asked if she could go with me to coffee to pick my brain about becoming a graphic designer, and this was her thank you to me. And it is probably one of my most treasured gifts. I remember the photo being taken and she just saw it on my social media, and chose that, and drew it. It was so unexpected and remarkable to me. So I love that.

NICOLE

Oh, that’s so sweet. I love that, it sounds so beautiful. Okay, well, when was the last time you tried something new and what was it?

JUDY TSUEI

Ooh. I signed up with a personal trainer, and he is the owner of this boxing studio that my friend invited me to. One day after class, he’s like, “I want to work with you.” I was like, “All right.” He’s like, “Just come with me and I’ll do a free private session with you.” I was like, “Okay.” So we were doing it, and I was nervous about the investment because it’s not a cheap investment, but the effects have been profound in so many other areas of my life.

I think partly it’s saying, “I’m worth it to invest this much money. I’m worth it because I want to see how strong I can become.” It’s always been a goal of mine to just be curious and see I’m worth having someone have his undivided attention on me for that hour and encourage me and tell me how strong I am. I think him just continually reiterating to me, ‘You are so strong.” Like, you just don’t know that you are so strong. And I think for a lot of us, we just are in ‘go’ mode all the time, and in order to achieve in society as a woman and a woman of color, you just have to have blinders on at times and just go. There is no stopping and thinking, “I’m pretty good at this” and encouraging yourself, because there’s just so many other things, micro and macro, that you have to deal with. So having him say that to me, as not even just an affirmation or reminder, but almost like a reality check, to be like, “I don’t know if you know this about yourself, but this is how strong you are.” I think that has been so rewarding just to take a pause and realize that in so many other facets of my life, I’ve been so much stronger than I’ve given myself credit for.

NICOLE

I love that parallel with the physical, but I will say too, having done some boxing, that that is incredibly physically challenging. So kudos to you for doing that, because that is a lot. Okay, our last question is, what are your top three most used emojis on your phone?

JUDY TSUEI

Oh, well, it’s probably the e-face, always a little bit like at my growing edge. I’m also a huge klutz. Like me and my daughter, we are so klutzy, it has become a running joke with some of our close friends. They watch us and they’re like, “Oh, Gosh, the both of you.” So there’s that, and there’s probably a heart to spread the love and encourage as much as possible. And the last one, I’m not sure. I feel like I do a lot of the response emojis of like the exclamation point, the heart and the haha. I’m always looking for a good haha.

NICOLE

Yes, I know. I love a good haha too, in general. Well, Judy, what a joy to have you on in such a deep and wide ranging conversation. What is the best way for people to find out more about you and what you do?

JUDY TSUEI

Thank you. So right now, the website is wild hearted words, if you wanted any business, marketing and branding elements that we are actually rebranding, which I’m very excited about. And my designer is wonderful, and he always surprises me. So I’m not even sure what we’re going to end up with, but I’m really excited about it. And then just my name on Instagram and LinkedIn, JUDY TSUEI,  and I’m definitely posting a lot on Instagram, kind of the elements of the personal life and parenting and divorced parenting, and so on. On LinkedIn, a lot of things about content marketing, brand story and just mindset stuff for women entrepreneurs. I actually just posted something.

I’m not a football person, but my partner was, “Hey, have you seen this photo of Brady when he was recruited for the NFL?” And he was like number 199 out of like, in the 6th draft, pick. And in his photo, he’s not muscular, but now he is like the greatest of all times, quarterback. He said there are no short shortcuts. You don’t have to be special. It’s just about perseverance, dedication and hard work. Just being able to see that image and then to see who he’s become, I think if anybody wants any inspiration, like the photo, you just see it is so powerful.  And then recently I posted this one about Post Malone – because it was like his first song or video that he did. And they’re like, ”If Post Malone can start here and get to where he is, you can do anything.”

NICOLE

That’s awesome. Well, we’ll also link all of those in the show notes, everyone. And then again, Judy, what a fun conversation. Thank you so much for being on the School of Self-Worth. I am so grateful you’ve been here sharing with all of us.

JUDY TSUEI

I’m so grateful for you. Thank you for what you’re doing.

NICOLE

Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget, if you are a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you, so make sure to dm me quiz @ NicoleTsong on Instagram and thank you for being here and for listening. We read every note that we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life.

Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong and this is the School of Self-Worth.