How to Release the Pressure Valve with Nicole Culver

• How to achieve big goals and dreams by taking simple steps (14:15)
• Handling pressure by diffusing rather than diagnosing (18:41)
• Embracing imperfection and letting go of pressure (22:04)
• Encouraging self-worth and growth through embracing failure and practice (24:19)

“When I’m at the height of feeling pressure, is it going to serve me or any of the people I’m dealing with to try to figure out the root cause of that moment, or is it going to help to just diffuse the situation? The thing that’s going to serve me and allow me to move through this is to just relieve the pressure. And then when I’m more regulated with time, then I can go back and say, like, well, what happened here? From a curiosity point of view, but I don’t think we can. At least for me, I have not found it beneficial to try to diagnose why this is coming up for me in the moment.”

“If you were teaching a kid to ride a bike and you were like, okay, I’m going to help you never to fall off the bike. It’s literally impossible….The goal isn’t to avoid falling. The goal is to learn how to ride. And how do you learn how to ride? By riding.”

“I think we’re so used to just being comfortable. We associate being comfortable with being safe…. And I think we also have gotten really used to not having any resilience. And you build resilience by practicing exactly like you just said, it’s a skill and it’s a habit.”

“I always had really big goals and really big dreams, and I still do, but I tried to not lose sight of, like, well, what’s the most important thing today? And truly, what can I do today? What can I do tomorrow? What can I do by the end of the week?”

NICOLE TSONG

Hello, friends, and welcome back to the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong. Today’s topic is one that you might be familiar with, especially if you’re an ambitious woman leader with a touch of perfectionism. So as a recovering perfectionist myself, this is one I especially love to teach and to work on all the time. And today we’re going to talk about exactly what it takes to release the pressure valve on yourself. I have been dealing with this a lot in 2024, so I am super excited to have this conversation with one of my mentors, Nicole Culver. She has helped me so much with the pressure I often place on myself and my goals. She is a mom of three, a wife, and an entrepreneur herself, so she really sets a beautiful example for how to release the pressure, and there was so much good learning in this episode, so make sure you stay tuned all the way to the end.

If you’re an Asian American woman leader who wants to learn to make quick, powerful decisions using the language of intuition, I’ve got a private podcast that gives you the exact step by step to master intuitive communication patterns. DM me secret at Nicole on Instagram to get all of the good details.

Okay, friends, without further ado, let’s dive in to this extraordinary conversation. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a best-selling author of three books and work/life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfilment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

Well, Nicole, thank you so much for being on the School of Self-Worth. I’m so glad you’re here.

NICOLE CULVER

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to talk about wherever this goes, pressure mindset, all the fun topics.

NICOLE TSONG

Totally. Well, you know, Nicole has been my mentor and I love that we’re both Nicole’s. I feel like the group that we’re in, there are so many Nicole’s. It’s kind of crazy all of a sudden.

NICOLE CULVER

I don’t know, if you were born in the 80s too, but I guess showing the decade, totally.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah, I think that is the case. But I love it and it’s been such a great place of support and expansion for me, and one of the topics that we’ve been talking about recently, which I feel will actually really resonate with all of the women who are listening, who experience this themselves, is a lot about the pressure, and I think of it as like the pressure valve of perfectionism, and so that’s the area we’re going to go into first. But what I would love actually, Nicole, if you could share a little bit about your journey around being able to step into the life that you lead now. So like a little bit of background about yourself. And because this is the School of Self-Worth, I always love to hear about women’s journeys into that. Nicole is very successful, she has big communities and she’s done a lot in her life, and I saw her on a stage in December in front of almost a thousand people. I think that those are things, whether it’s actually your dream or not, that the ability to say yes to opportunities like that, I think is a big challenge for people. So I’m wondering if you could just share a little bit first about your own journey and how you have, over time, cultivated the self-worth to do the things that you do, and then we can get into the pressure talk after that.

NICOLE CULVER

If you had told me literally when I was graduating college to be a teacher, I thought my whole life I would be in the classroom. Truly, from as long as I can remember, I was going to be a teacher. Like an elementary school teacher. That was my thing. I always worked with kids, I worked at summer camps, I worked in daycares, I babysat. From what I consider now that I have an eleven year old, my people left me with their kids at like ten. How did they do that? I always was going to be a teacher. So if you could rewind and go back to when I was getting my first teaching job and told myself then what I do now, I would be like, you are so wrong. That is not her. That is not what I’m meant to do. That is not who I am. I’m just a teacher. That’s truly, truly, truly, I mean that from my core.

So I was a fourth grade special ed teacher for five years and I never even thought I would take a promotion from there. I never even saw myself as an admin. And really towards the end of my third year of teaching, I don’t know how far you want to go into this, but someone very close to me passed away, and it was just like I saw my life pass before my eyes, and I knew this wasn’t my path anymore. The thing is, I didn’t know what my path was. I just knew that I couldn’t stay. I knew I was not meant to work for someone else. I knew that I couldn’t work for someone else five days a week, indefinitely, for the rest of my life with a group of people who didn’t want to be where they were.

NICOLE TSONG

Could you talk a little bit more about what that feels like in your body, or just how you felt like what was really going on for you at that time?

NICOLE CULVER

I think I was tricking myself into thinking I was happy, because I had done the thing that I thought I would do my whole life, and I thought this was it. I thought I could do this for 25, 30 years. Then, when my aunt passed away, and she was someone who was just under a lot of stress all of the time, and I feel like she had so many things that she wanted to do that she didn’t get to do. And when you see someone so close to you who just is gone in a flash, I think you just have that moment where you’re like, am I really happy? Is this it for me? I’m waking up in the middle of the night on Sundays being like, I don’t want to go to school. I don’t want to go to teaching. Why am I continuing to do this? And that was really when I started to create my exit plan, because I knew this wasn’t it. I don’t know what it is, but this is not it, and I need to find a way out.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah. I think that’s so resonant for so many people listening. I know so many people in that position where sometimes I think we don’t even ask the question, like, am I happy? Because we’re so used to it. We just are. Like, I’m going to plug away. I’m going to make this work. I’m going to fight for it. And it sounds like for you there was that big realization of what it was! And then it still took you a couple of years, though, before you actually exited.

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah, it took me about two years because I didn’t want to just quit without a plan, so I needed to give myself some time, and I also wanted to be smart about it, and I had student loans. When you reach and complete year five in New York, there was a student loan forgiveness program. So I knew if I could get to year five, then I would have all my student loans forgiven and I would have a zero balance, and that’s what I did. I waited until year five, but I was doing things on the side.

I was being a health coach. I was selling baked goods. I was taking one to one clients after school, like coaching on nutrition and helping people improve their life. So it was like a health coach/life coach type of situation that I had gone back to school online, which was barely a thing at that point because this was like 2008, 2009, 2010, a long time ago. I started to create my path. I started to create that thing that would give me a little bit of a safety net. I had a husband who was working a full time job, so I did have even more of a safety net, but I didn’t want to just jump without having something. I needed an exit plan.

NICOLE TSONG

And what would you say to, my experience of you, current day Nicole is like very much in action, very much trusts herself, has been building her business. But the Nicole back then, I’m sure, didn’t have that same energy and activation. Or maybe you already had some of those qualities, and I’m curious about what helped prompt you to make the leap. How did you say to yourself when you questioned it, is this right? I don’t know what I’m doing. Let me see. I’m going to get my question clear, because I feel like it takes a lot of self-worth to make these leaps. Like when we take these big leaps, it’s really hard. It can be a time where you really are doubting yourself. Is this the right thing to do? And what helped you stay on track at that time?

NICOLE CULVER

So this question has so much duality for me, because I didn’t know what I was doing. I knew I had no idea what I was doing, and had no business doing, for lack of a better term, I didn’t really have any business starting a business because I didn’t know what I was doing. But I never questioned myself. I never said I shouldn’t be doing this. I am the type of person that I go all in on a decision a million percent. That doesn’t mean I am not scared.

I have a picture of myself on the phone quitting, because it was over the summer, calling my principal. I was out of my mind scared. But I always go to the future like, in 5 or 10 years from now, if I’m still at this job, if I’m still this miserable, what is the cost of that? And that is just, like, no question. I knew I had to go. I knew I had to do it. There was no uncertainty there. What the heck was going to happen? I had no idea, but I never questioned the decision.

NICOLE TSONG

Well, that’s really powerful, because I think that’s the biggest part. Our fear can get in the way, and we’re like, I don’t know if I can do this, and it actually stops people. But you are just like, well, I’m all in, and I’m scared, and it’s okay.

NICOLE CULVER

I think it’s really important, and I don’t know that I thought like this then, but it’s hindsight. Money is important to me, and paying our bills is important to me, but money is not number one. That’s not what I’m measuring against. It was the happiness and the joy factor that was number one. And I think a lot of times we put money as the number one value when it’s actually not. We don’t actually have our values mapped out so concretely. So we have all of this overwhelm and all of this jumbledness in our head. But for me, money was not number one. It was truly like, the type of life I wanted to live was number one. And when I measure it against that value, teaching was not the thing. So I knew even if we struggled with money for a little while, we would be okay. And we struggled with money, I think, way longer than I would have anticipated, or that I would have liked. But my quality of life and my day to day happiness was so much more, and that was what I was going for.

NICOLE TSONG

Well, I feel like that’s really powerful, because a lot of times, and I know for many of the women listening, you can tie to the idea of your job as security, and then that’s where, even though you’re not really that free within the job, they’re like, oh, I just have to stay anyway, even if it’s not a great fit anymore.

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah, I had someone message me not that long ago who I used to work with, and we were pretty good work friends, and she was asking me how everything was going, and this was probably, like, three years ago at this point, and she was like, yeah, well, I only have ten years left. And I was like, “cool”. But what am I going to say to her, when I was thinking like, “ten years!” And then I always go to my kids. I’m like, okay, well, this one will be in college. And then I immediately am like, no, ten years of your life. You don’t know. Not to be dark, but you could be dead in ten years, and then what? So what are you living for, truly? Because if it’s just the paycheck, okay, that’s totally fine, but most people don’t want to live just for the paycheck, and you could make money anywhere, truly. So what is number one? What is the most important thing? And are your daily actions in line with it? And I don’t know, for most people, we live in the weird space of entrepreneurship where maybe yes, but I think most people would say no.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah, well, I feel like there is this leap, and I’m interested in this part of it, into that place of really understanding the possibility of what you’re doing when you leave, because it can be so restricting mentally, I think, for people in jobs and climbing a corporate ladder. But then when they make the leap, it can feel almost overwhelming and so scary. All that possibility is almost too big. I’m kind of curious how you kept yourself anchored while going through this whole journey of opening your food business and getting to the place you are today.

NICOLE CULVER

This is going to sound way too simple, but it’s just one step at a time. I always had really big goals and really big dreams, and I still do, but I tried to not lose sight of, like, well, what’s the most important thing today? And truly, what can I do today? What can I do tomorrow? What can I do by the end of the week? And this, I think, is where being a teacher really helped me, because I was always very like, let me plan. Let me be organized. Let me have an action plan, and that kind of carried over to this. And this is where a lot of people get overwhelmed. We see this in our space too, where they’re like, okay, I want to go from zero to six figures, zero to 100K for the year, and then the overwhelm of just thinking about what that’s going to take.

So you have to know yourself, because some people, that amps them up and they’re super empowered and they’re like, yes, let’s get to six figures. But other people are like, oh, my gosh, that’s going to require so much, and then that’s where I go, okay, but your business is built one by one, two by two, three by three. Let’s just try to get to one this week, and then we’ll worry about getting to two with the next step. So it really is figuring out what does need to be done today, what does need to be done by the end of the week, what does need to be done by the end of the month, and keeping ourselves grounded in the logistics of it, while being open to the possibility.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah. And that leads perfectly, really, into the topic that we were talking about originally, which is like, pressure and perfectionism. So I’m totally a recovering perfectionist. You have coached me through this many times, and I have this tendency to go back into it, because it’s like I have these big dreams, too, and I want to reach them. For anybody, whether you have the big dreams or you might just be putting that kind of pressure on yourself to perform daily, for whatever reason, in your job and in your life, what would you say to those people? How did you cope whenever you felt that coming up, like, pressure on yourself? Because I’m curious, did you put pressure on yourself, especially once you left that job?

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah, and this is something I don’t want anyone to think, that I’m immune from pressure. I’m not. I deal with it differently, and it’s not perfect, so I’ll still have moments of pressure, and sometimes I know, okay, you need to walk away and take a beat. And if you think of pressure like a big filled up balloon that’s about to explode, I don’t want it to explode. I just want to let the air out a little bit. So what I’m trying to do is figure out what is going to help me let the air out a little bit, and usually now I know this means walking away. This means taking a walk. This means putting on music. This means something that is probably not work related to just let the air out of the balloon.

But this comes from years of practice of this. I would definitely let the balloon explode from pressure. Now, I have gone through so many years of this and so many phases of this that I’m like, okay, pressure is going to happen. It’s inevitable. How do I move with pressure? Well, I don’t. I just have to figure out what’s going to relieve the pressure. So, yes, of course I’ve put pressure and still put pressure on myself this week. It’s kind of like fear. I’m not trying to get rid of it. I’m trying to move through it. So once you understand that it’s something that’s going to come up, it’s part of the game, it’s part of the experience. I’m not trying to avoid it. I’m just trying to figure out how do I move through this in the way that’s going to help me, that’s going to be for my highest good.

NICOLE TSONG

Well, sometimes I find this for myself, and I know this happens with my own clients and women I work with, that they want to really understand the cause of it, like the cause of pressure, or the cause of perfectionism, and everything you just said had none of that in there, and I’m curious for you how you think of that part of it. Is it helpful to identify it? Is it helpful to go back and be like, this is what’s creating that pressure within myself? Or do you feel like it’s better to actually relieve the pressure itself and just move forward from there?

NICOLE CULVER

So I don’t want to speak in absolutes ever, but I’m just going to talk about what works for me, because I probably would have also handled this differently. But for me, when I’m at the height of feeling pressure, is it going to serve me or any of the people I’m dealing with to try to figure out the root cause of that moment, or is it going to help to just diffuse the situation? I would think about everything in terms of relationships. If I’m in an argument or something with my husband, is it going to help to try to diagnose him, why he’s angry? And to try to be like, hey, Dan, I see you’re angry. What’s the root cause of this? Or is that going to make him more stressed, angrier, have more pressure? Or do you just walk away and say, like, let’s just take a beat, let’s revisit this conversation when we are feeling a little bit more regulated? And that’s how I think about this too. It’s not going to serve me to try to figure out the why right now. The thing that’s going to serve me and allow me to move through this is to just relieve the pressure. And then when I’m more regulated with time, then I can go back and say, well, what happened here, from a curiosity point of view, but I don’t think we can. At least for me, I have not found it beneficial to try to diagnose why this is coming up for me in the moment.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah, I agree, because I feel like there’s so much around when we are actually letting ourselves off the hook is when we can actually start to figure things out. But in that moment, it’s not going to help at all. You said over the years you’ve learned to just dial it down. How do you start to recognize within yourself, like you’re putting that pressure on? Because sometimes I think when we’re in that moment, we’re just like, all right, I’m going to send more emails. I’m going to just dial in and sit at this desk and just make it go away that way.

NICOLE CULVER

So I preface all of this with like, I’ve been doing this for twelve and a half years at this point. I’ve made so many mistakes and worked from a place of high stress and I just try to not come from that place anymore. I think now it’s in my body where it’s like you feel constricted, and you feel that pressure in your body. If I’m feeling like that and I’m like, I have to send more emails. If this happens, that’s where I’m usually like, oh, that’s really interesting, but no, that’s not where we work from. And that’s when I try to back off. And Nicole, you know this about me, it’s not like I’m going to take three weeks and get really aligned before I move again. No, it’s usually quick at this point, but if I’m feeling constricted in my body and pressure in my body, then that’s when I try to relieve it, because the work we do is so important. I always want it to be filled with the most expansive energy, so people can feel the possibility versus coming from a place of constrictive. And I have to. Does that make sense?

NICOLE TSONG

Oh, yeah, completely. I think a lot of times for so many of the women that I’m working with and for myself too, we get into this place of like, I want to have it be perfect, which is not always possible, right? Instead of just being okay with putting one foot in front of the next and having it be like, maybe we’re going to mess up, maybe we’re going to have a little failure along the way, make a mistake and that’s totally fine. But we put so much pressure on ourselves to not do that. Then when you get hung up on that, that’s when you’re just like, I’m not going to let go, versus actually just kind of think of it as this total clench in your hands and face and just being like, okay, let’s just take our hands off the reins just for, like, five minutes and then see how you feel afterward instead.

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah. And what I would say to that, too, is when you truly can accept that failure is part of the process. It’s not something that is avoidable. It’s just not. It’s part of the gig. It’s kind of like if you were teaching a kid to ride a bike and you were like, okay, I’m going to help you never to fall off the bike. It’s literally impossible. And if you’re trying to help a kid learn to ride a bike and avoid falling, they’re probably not ever going to get on the bike. The goal isn’t to avoid falling. The goal is to learn how to ride, and how do you learn to ride? By riding. Yes, you’re going to fall, but it’s part of it, and that’s how I think about failures. It’s part of it. It’s not a big deal. You fall off the bike, sometimes it’s a tiny fall, sometimes it’s a bigger fall. But it’s not about the fall.

It’s about the getting back on again. So I’m not ever doing anything to not fail. I’m doing it to learn how to ride. And how do you do that? By riding. So I think it’s a whole different energy when you are going about your day trying not to do something versus just thinking about the goal and getting to the goal.

NICOLE TSONG

It reminds me of one of my friends recently, I can’t remember, in the last year, who was moving jobs, and she hadn’t changed, I think, in like a decade. And we were talking about it, and I was saying to her, and I’m curious for your thoughts on this, but I was like, I think you’re just out of practice. You’re out of practice of trying something so bold and big and you don’t really know what that is like. And I think a lot of times, especially with failure, because as a kid, you fail constantly, right? You’re trying new things. You have kids, they’re always trying things, and they don’t really care if they fail or not. I mean, they might have some cares depending on the situation, but in general, they’re in this place of growth and expansion, because that’s what it’s like to be a kid.

I used to write a fitness column, and then I failed constantly, because I was trying new things every week, and there’s just no way I could have mastered 300 types of movement in all those years, I just had to keep failing. But I often think for adults, we get in this idea of, I know how to do something, and so I want to stay in the lane of the things I know how to do, versus being practiced at failure. I’m curious what you think about the idea of how do we just keep practicing? Like you said, learning and growing and knowing that failure is part of the process, rather than trying to avoid it.

NICOLE CULVER

I think we’re so used to just being comfortable, and being comfortable is associated with being safe. And it’s totally a skill. It is totally a habit. It’s totally something you can practice. I think we also have gotten really used to not having any resilience, and you build resilience by practicing exactly like you just said, it’s a skill and it’s a habit, and we get to say, like, well, if I want to grow, I can’t just sit on my couch. I can’t. That’s not what life is. I have to get outside of my comfort zone. So when you can show yourself, your brain and your subconscious that actually getting uncomfortable is safe, and you start to build that resilience, that’s where you get outside of your comfort zone. That’s where that cliche line is so true, ‘Growth is outside of your comfort zone’. But I think for so many of us, we’re so used to our norm being this mediocrity of just being slightly unhappy, being slightly anxious, being comfortable all the time, and anything outside of that, we see as bad; when it’s like, okay, if you want a change, then you’re going to have to do something different.

NICOLE TSONG

Right. And then I think of it as like, okay, how do we build our resilience so that when we do start to take some risks, the failure doesn’t feel like it’s going to knock us back on our butts and we can’t get up again?

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah, 100%. And it’s just like riding a bike. It’s practice. The first fall might hurt, they might all hurt, but you’re in practice of them, and it’s kind of like the first time you get a not great comment on Instagram or something like that. The first one might sting the most, then it’s kind of like I don’t  think it should be like anyone is in practice of receiving them. But you realize, well, this actually isn’t about me, it’s about them. So it is. It’s totally a practice.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah. Well, what would you say for someone who’s like, okay, I want to get over this perfectionism. I want to start to practice for my failure. What would be one thing that they could do today?

NICOLE CULVER

I guess, go. Just go. We talk about the mean manager sitting on your shoulder. Anytime you feel the hesitation, you feel the resistance come up. Instead of giving into the resistance, you do the opposite. And that’s where you start to train yourself that it’s safe to go. Instead of letting the time come in where you’re just like, I’ll just wait. Don’t put that out there. Don’t take that action. Instead of that, you say ‘go’, to  that vision, that voice that stops you, you just go, and you just do the thing. And that is the only way you will teach yourself that getting uncomfortable is safe. Meeting and moving through the resistance, it is safe. So as soon as you go to take the pause, instead of the pause, you just go, and you run!

NICOLE TSONG

I love that. Well, Nicole has been supporting me with my ‘mean manager’, and so I love that’s her name now, I never actually had a name for my critic inside, but that is, like, perfect. She’s just the meanest boss, and I’m like, let’s not listen to her. We’re going to listen to somebody else instead, and just go from there. Such a powerful conversation Nicole, I’m so grateful to you for just having that wisdom and sharing with everyone. And I know that everyone listening deals with this, right? That perfectionism and that intense fear of failure, and how powerful to help them start to shift out of that. So let’s do this. Are you ready for some rapid fire questions?

NICOLE CULVER

Yes, I am. But I will tell you, I have a hard time being brief, so I’m going to try really hard.

NICOLE TSONG

Oh, you don’t have to be brief. It’s just the questions are brief. Okay. The first one is, what was the last thing you watched on TV?

NICOLE CULVER

Oh, Suits. Last night. That’s easy.

NICOLE TSONG

Lovely easy. Yes. Okay. And then what is on your nightstand?

NIOLE CULVER

Oh, what is on my nightstand? A tray and a lamp. That’s it.

NICOLE TSONG

So simple. I love it.

NICOLE CULVER

Tells you a lot about me. It is very simple.

NICOLE TSONG

That’s awesome. I actually feel like I learn the most about guests when I ask what’s on their nightstand, because it says so many things.

NICOLE CULVER

So fun. That’s a fun question.

NICOLE TSONG

And when was the last time you tried something new and what was it?

NICOLE CULVER

Speaking of learning and growing, does Instagram live count? Because that’s a new thing I have been doing that is very challenging to me.

NICOLE TSONG

I think it does, yeah. Because you’ve been doing it consistently.

NICOLE CULVER

Yeah, I’ve been trying to. Once a week is my goal.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah. And what are you learning from it?

NICOLE CULVER

I also made a new recipe list two nights ago, so I’ll say that too, because I was like, that’s so boring. Of course I brought up a business thing, so I made a new recipe, and I bought curry powder for the first time. So that, I will say is my side note, because I did not want to just say a business thing there. What am I learning? I’m learning it’s safe to be uncomfortable and it’s totally okay to let people see you sweat, because the first time I went live, my face was getting red, and I just called it out. I was like, I’m feeling nervous right now. And the response to that, just like the realness of it, was so nice. People were like, I’m going to do this too. I’m going to do something uncomfortable. It’s okay.

I think it’s such a highlight reel to only show the polished version. And that’s also why I wanted to do it, because I wanted to show people. No-one is perfect at this all of the time, and I’m still doing things that get outside of my comfort zone. And yes, I actually feel more comfortable speaking to almost 1000 people on stage than going live on Instagram in front of four people. Go figure. Why? I don’t know, but that’s what made me uncomfortable. And I just wanted to show the process of going from ‘I’m feeling really nervous’ to then my fifth one being like, ‘I’m less nervous now’.

NICOLE TSONG

Yeah, that’s awesome. It’s a great example of, when we do reveal, it’s so powerful for people because especially in the work you and I do, we’re always out there, we’re always doing things. And it can look like it’s always so polished, which it is totally not. I cried on my podcast a few episodes ago, so you just never know, right? Yeah.

Okay, last one. What are your top three most used emojis on your phone?

NICOLE CULVER

Oh, gosh. I feel like this is going to show my almost 40’ness because the crying emoji, like the crying/laughing emoji for sure. I’m trying to actually get out of the habit of using it so much. I use it way too much. I’m just looking at my emojis, like, definitely that one, and the one with the smile and the hearts and the third one I would say is definitely all over the place. I don’t know. The heart one, I love also.

NICOLE TSONG

I know. Are your kids telling you you’re like, mommy shouldn’t use the crying/laughing emojis?

NICOLE CULVER

No, because my eleven year old is just about the sweetest, almost like head in the clouds. Her friends asked her to see mean girls and she’s like, what’s mean girls? Okay. Also, no, you can’t see mean girls. It’s not for you yet. So no, my kids have not,  but then my little one will be the one to do that and she’s only five, but it’s only a matter of time.

NICOLE TSONG

I know, I use those. I know it’s not cool, but they really express how I’m feeling when I’m laughing at something. So I’m just going to use it.

NICOLE CULVER

I know, I agree.

NICOLE TSONG

Well, Nicole, thank you so much for being on. What’s the best way for people to find out more about you, or to reach you?

NICOLE CULVER

My Instagram just Nicole Culver.

NICOLE TSONG

Okay, amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on. I loved having this conversation with you.

NICOLE CULVER

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

NICOLE TSONG

Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget, if you are a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72-second assessment for you. So make sure to DM me quiz on at Nicole at Instagram, and thank you for being here and for listening. We read every note that we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong and this is the School of Self-Worth.