The REAL Reason Dating Might Not Be Working For You with Andi Forness, Part 2

• How stating your preferences will help you attract an emotionally available partner (3:45)
• A game changing tip to stop overthinking when you find yourself spiraling out (12:31)
• Andi’s BIG tip for Nicole that made it into Nicole and Michael’s wedding vows, and has continued to be a foundational part of their marriage  (16:16)
• The secret to attracting an emotionally available partner (20:40)
•  

“Once you find out you’re spiraling, you have to actually ground down and get some facts.” 

“What I see a lot of times is women that have overgiven in their previous relationship, then they go this [opposite] way and they don’t want to give anything. They want the guy to do it all.”

“If someone’s on a dating site, they’ve probably been hurt. They’re just like you. They’ve probably been told that they’ve been doing things wrong. They also are coming with baggage. … So it’s just really important to be clear and direct and vulnerable with what’s going on just to see if that other person is even available.”

“He picked you because you were strong. Strong meets strong. Open meets open. A not-as-emotionally-developed or strong man couldn’t have been able to handle that.”

“You’re not asking him for long term committed relationship. You’re not asking him for marriage. You can break dating down into manageable chunks so it doesn’t become overwhelming.”

“It’s not really that weird for people to ask someone, ‘Do you want to continue dating and getting to know each other?’ It’s a really small ask. I think women make these small asks these really big things and it should not be.”

NICOLE

Welcome to The School of Self Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth.

I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and a Work Life Balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfilment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insight about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.

Hello and welcome back to the School of Self-Worth. Did we leave you hanging last week with the first episode of dating coach Andi Forness? It truly was so good, was it not? I loved that whole conversation with Andi. And today is even better, because today you’ll get to hear me talk about what it was like to actually apply what Andi taught me when I started dating my husband, Michael. This gets personal. I’m sharing some of the earliest conversations we had that were formative to the relationship that we built. Today, I don’t hold anything back, so make sure you tune in. And if you are a high achieving career woman who wants to unlock her own roadmap to personal power, DM me power on Instagram, I’ve got something for you.

Okay, let’s do this. When I started working with you, Andi, it was I would think, about six months post-separation. I was not fully divorced yet, right? It was like a month before COVID, and obviously we didn’t know that. I was like, okay, here I go. And I totally was in that New Year energy. And I started to swipe, and I got matches.

ANDI FORNESS

All your dates were walks.

NICOLE TSONG

They were all walks because it was during COVID. I don’t know if you remember this guy, but I distinctly remember I had a phone call with him, because this is one of the first things Andi teaches us, to have a phone call with them. And I was on the phone with him, and I found him kind of boring. And she totally drilled me on that. She’s like, Why is he boring? I was like, I don’t know. There’s just something in his voice. I just don’t even really know if I want to go on a date. And for whatever reason, this guy was going on a trip. And then when he came back, we were going to go on the date, and I was like, I don’t know how I feel about this. But then while he was gone, he actually sent me a photo of a whale that he had seen on the trip that he had taken. I don’t know if he had been diving or what. He sent it to me and I told you, and you’re like, that doesn’t sound very boring. I was like just being called on my stuff right away. I was like, oh, and that didn’t work out, but it was like a really good lesson for me on how I was being super perfectionist. I was being very dismissive of people because we hadn’t even gone on a date. I had no idea what this guy was about, but I was already peremptory, like, no, not him. Even though he had messaged me back. We’d had a phone call. He’d given up time.

ANDI FORNESS

Totally.

NICOLE

Totally. Yeah. So I remember learning all of these things, and one of the things I learned along the way really was just to start stating my preferences and then to also see what they did with it. So can you talk a little bit about that? You state your preferences and then what is that drawing in and what is that showing you about the person you’re talking to?

ANDI FORNESS

So, one of the things when I just used chemistry as like a default… yes, the chemistry would be there. They were hot, and this probably lasted maybe three months. And then you just got into a regular relationship like everyone else. But yet those people weren’t necessarily everyone that I work with  now, because they’ve done some sort of self-help. But if you’re coming through icole, then you have as well.

You want someone that has evolved, right? You want somebody that has done some work on themselves. And I’ll always say this too – one of the ways that you can tell if you’re going to be in a good relationship is how someone responds. Right. When you want things to come up that way, you get to see how that person reacts. And I come from a background of managing things, people pleasing, keeping the peace, not saying anything, me handling everything so that my partner doesn’t know. I’ve always had to avoid conflict because conflict in the past has been usually very traumatic. So I’ve been conflict-avoidant. But what I realized is, there’s no power in that either, right? There’s no self-confidence or anything when you are constantly scared. So what I also realized during dating, is this is a great place for me to see how the person in front of me handles my wishes, how they handle conflict, how they handle me expressing maybe something I didn’t like, and how I can also compromise. This actually came up with a client recently. She asked for the video call. He didn’t like the idea of the video call. And so she had to compromise. He suggested a phone call. It’s like this whole thing of once you are more authentic about yourself and not such a people-pleaser or conflict-avoidant, you then actually get to see early on how you and this person can work together or talk about things. And it’s literally the basis for a really good relationship, can this person hear what I want? It doesn’t mean that they’re going to agree. Right? But can I be heard? Everyone’s desperate to be heard.

NICOLE

What you’re saying is, this is the growth journey. Because I loved what you said at the beginning. When you’re talking about if you’re not in the relationship you want, that’s because you’re not ready for it yet. And when you start to be able to do things – like say what you need, you start to become the person who is ready for the person who comes in with you. And it took me a long time to see this because I dated for like a year and a half before I met my husband, Michael. And I would struggle with some of these things sometimes. Like, how do I start to say what I want to be clear, and then to keep owning it over and over again, and then being with guys who are open to it, and we’re open to saying yes? And then me also understanding that giving them the time and space for the relationship to start to evolve, because, by the time I met Michael, I was actually ready for the relationship we created. But it is interesting what you’re saying, and it really was for me.

This is why I get back to self-worth a little bit because I didn’t feel worthy of the kind of person who would treat me that well and who would really honor everything I needed at all times, on a deeper level, on an emotional level. Because what I really wanted was an emotionally available guy. This is like the unicorn of the dating world. Everyone wants an emotionally available guy, but I wanted an evolved guy. And now I understand what Andi was teaching me. I want someone who is going to be with me on the pathway, which is not the same thing because you don’t need someone who’s actually been through self-development, but someone who is aware enough that they can meet you and is willing to match you along the way.

ANDI FORNESS

Maybe they’ve grown up in an environment where they were able to talk about things. I will say my two sons because I have done my self-work, I’ve passed that down, and now I have a generation where we can get in some kind of ‘kerfluckle’ and we are good. I respect their boundaries, they respect mine, and I get hugs. Like, the other day I was crying about something and my son came over and gave me a big hug. 

So maybe they didn’t do a bunch of self-work. Maybe they grew up in an environment that actually nurtured them, like talking about things and being there for people. You want to check that out at the beginning. That’s a really big part of this.

NICOLE

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like I learned how to just start to spot the things that mattered early. That would just be an indicator that we could do things right and have the relationship that we have. 

Okay, great. Well, let’s fast forward a little bit because I will have to say the first month and a half that I was dating Michael were probably like the biggest personal challenge I had that whole year, because he was challenging for me, and not because he is a challenging person. It was because I was challenged by a lot of the things that occurred when we started to date. So I’ll share a little bit with everyone and then Andi and I can talk about where she came in for me on that one. 

I had her whole system down. I had messaged him, I had set good boundaries, and we had our first date, and it was really nice. And it was just one of those where, ‘I like this guy. I’d like to go out with him again.’ Using Andi’s protocol at the end of the date, I said, I’d love to do it again, and he said, yeah, okay. And then he set up our next date. And this was the beginning of some of the patterns of how he communicates, which is not actually that frequently, and I was not used to that. I was used to someone who would text me or message me all the time. And Michael is really not into any kind of phones. He deletes social media off his phone because he doesn’t like it. He just deleted his Instagram app and his account. And I was like, wow, you can just do that. He’s just very hands off with that kind of stuff. So he didn’t message me, and I would just be thinking, does he like me? Does he want to do this? What would happen? But on our first date, he told me he didn’t message me before the first date. And I remember messaging him like an hour before. I’m like, Are we still meeting? Because most people would confirm. And he’s like, oh, yeah, of course. And then on our first date, he said, well, if I say I’m going to be somewhere, I’ll be there. And I was like, oh, well, that’s the kind of person I want. I don’t need someone who texts me all the time if they’re going to just be where they say they’re going to be or set the date up that they say they’re going to set. Right?

So this is where I had to start understanding that texting every day is not the equivalent of a person with integrity who does what they said they would do. So this was happening. And then we started to date, and on our second date, same thing happened again. It was really great. It was super fun. And now I’m starting to feel like I like this person. We do it again. We go on a third date. And then after our third date, he didn’t set up the next date, and I had a total freak out. I was like, I don’t know if he likes me now. I really like him. I’m not sure what’s next. And then I was ‘Andy, SOS help. I don’t know what I’m doing anymore.’ And do you remember that conversation we had, that coaching session?

ANDI FORNESS

Yes.

NICOLE

I’m glad you remember it. I called you, and I kind of freaked out for a while. What she said was like, well, do you like him? And I said, yes. And she said, okay, well, what I want you to do is get on the phone and have a conversation with him and tell him the things that you need. Like, tell him what your preferences are, what you need. She’s like, you can tell him you like him. Tell him you needed him to text you more. At the time, we had been seeing each other just once a week, and I wanted to see him a little more. Andi’s like tell him you want to see him more than once a week. And at that time, I wasn’t into commitment. We were only three dates in, but I was still freaking out a little bit. So she says tell him all those things. I’m curious. And then you were like, see what he does with that? See what he does when you call him. Tell him that. Now I’m curious if you could give the lens of what you were seeing for me by stating myself so clearly to someone really new to me at the time.

ANDI FORNESS

Okay. So part of it is dating, but the other part is our tendency to not know how we get out of assuming, and that’s where that rational, analytical mind is, right? It’s like constantly going, this, that, and the other, trying to figure out why did he not set up the next date? And what I love for people to do is to just know how you can take all that off the plate? By getting on the phone with someone and actually having a conversation with them. You can avoid all of that mental anguish because none of that is good for your self-worth. The worry, the wonder. None of it.

When I ever start to see myself going down some spiral, I have to stop even with my partner that I’m with now, we’re in five years. But if I see some kind of downward spiral, I have to get on the phone and say, hey, this might sound crazy or whatever, but I need to talk to you through this a little bit. And he’s like, okay, can we do it after work? I’m like, sure. Right. So that’s number one for your self-worth. This thought, once you find out your spiral, you have to actually ground down and get some facts. So that was number one. The second part is women who are protecting themselves for whatever reason, they’ve been hurt before, they’re trying new behaviors. I cannot tell you how many times I was told, like years later, that even though I liked someone, I wasn’t giving out any vibe and they didn’t know. I probably lost some really good guys because I was not giving any sort of vibe. That’s the second part. And part three – we’re all hearing this ‘be vulnerable’. That’s how we connect. Right? It was really more like those three things. Oh, and the fourth thing was you had a boundary for yourself to see if this guy was available. You weren’t just going to be in default to what he thought a relationship was because a relationship really is two people and their wants. And you work together. What I see a lot of times is women that have over-given, like in their previous relationship, then they go this way, and they don’t want to give anything, and they want the guy to do it all.

What I want everyone to remember, is there’s actually two people. If someone’s on a dating site, they’ve probably been hurt. They’re just like you. They’ve probably been told that they’ve been doing things ‘wrong’ and putting that in air quotes. They also are coming with baggage. They might not show it, but they have, right? Especially at this age. It’s just really important to be clear and direct and vulnerable with what’s going on just to see if that other person is even available. They might not be, but at least you haven’t wasted a bunch of mental energy or physical energy. That’s why I really believe in it at the beginning.

NICOLE

Well, what you taught me and showed me was so important because one of my big reflections from my previous relationship is that I was not emotionally available. I love to say he wasn’t, but the truth is I was not either. And so in this case now, I was facing this idea to be emotionally available, which is to tell someone that I like them, which is the most emotionally available thing you can really do early on. And I was literally terrified.

Andi, you told me to do this. And I’m like sweating buckets. Like, oh my gosh, I’m going to know. I texted him and said, can we have a call? And he said, yeah, of course. (We referenced it in our wedding ceremony because it was such an important call, and it was actually a really short call). Like I called him, I said, okay, I have four things I need to tell you. The first one is that I need to have this call. And he was like, okay. The second one is, I like you. Because you said, I remember you told me this, ask him if he’s available to continue dating. 

ANDI FORNESS

He didn’t make that next date.

NICOLE

He didn’t make the next date and he didn’t make it clear. And I said, I like you and I wanted to know if you’re available to keep dating. And he said yes, immediately.

ANDI FORNESS

Can I stop you here?

NICOLE

Yes, please.

ANDI FORNESS

I said you’re not asking him for a long-term committed relationship. You’re not asking him for marriage. And that’s what I think the big fear is. You can break dating down into manageable chunks so it doesn’t become overwhelming. It’s not really that weird for people to ask someone, ‘do you want to continue dating and getting to know each other?’ It’s a really small ask. And I think women make these small asks into really big things, and it shouldn’t be. 

NICOLE

It felt like a big ask of me. I know him. And it wasn’t for him. It was for me to be okay. Then the second thing I said is that I would like to text more.  I’d like to have more messages. And he said, ‘Well, I don’t really like texting, but I’ll send you some gifts or jokes’. And I said, okay. Great, fine. And then I wanted to see him more. He’s a teacher and it was the beginning of the year. He said, well, it’s going to have to be a couple of weeks and then I’ll try to do that. I said, okay. It was literally 5 minutes and then it was done.

In the context of this, the reason he didn’t set up another date is because he was freaking out a little bit because he really liked me, and he didn’t know what to do. He was also dating other people, and felt stressed, and that’s why he didn’t do it. And when I did that, he said I was the first woman who has ever done that in all of his experience, who has said and stated clearly what I wanted from him and made it really easy for him. And it is the reason he kept dating me.

ANDI FORNESS

That’s awesome.

NICOLE

Yeah. I don’t know if you knew that, but he always says that. He’s like, that was the reason I decided to go with you, because it was different and he had already been feeling it, but that confirmed it. And I would say, too, I’ll go for it.

ANDI FORNESS

Well, now I’m just thinking out loud like strong women. That’s how you’re going to get a man that once you’re yourself and you’re not afraid to say things, and you say things all the time in your regular world, like you’re in your job or you’re with your friends or your family or whatever. We say things all the time, but then, for some reason, that’s how you’re going to get a person that will give you all the things and be up at your level. But you can’t hide that part of you. You can’t. He picked you because you were strong. And he’s like, strong meets strong. Right. Open means open.

If you would have done that to the counter of him, a not as emotionally developed or strong man could not have been able to handle that. Right?  They would have disappeared. Anyways, that’s huge. That’s great.

NICOLE

It also set the tone for our relationship because I am never afraid to talk to him about hard things. Because I know how he’ll handle it. He’ll handle it like that. He’s very calm and he listens, and sometimes he responds right away, sometimes he doesn’t. But I don’t ever feel afraid to talk to him. I might feel afraid of, like, this topic feels hard, or this feels really big, but I’m never afraid of how he’s going to be about it because that night he showed me. Walking to the grocery store and chatting with me, and he’s like, yeah, sounds great. It was fine, right? And then we set up our next date from that, and then that’s how we continued on in our relationship.

But that conversation that you coached me on was so pivotal for me to step into my own power and worth and value, in a way I really never had. This is kind of a funny thing, but on our second date, he gave me a bunch of dried flowers, a little bunch, and I put it in my car. It was like lavender and some other stuff. It smelled nice. And I would use it to stay a scientist around my dating because I would look at it and be like, he’s not texting me, but he likes me. I have proof that he’s interested in me, on my dashboard. I would look at it whenever I was feeling that spiral of, “Does he like me?” Even if we had a date set up, you know what I mean? Even though all the reality was lined up, but my head would feel really stressed about it. I would just look at a little bunch of flowers, and I’d be like, it’s okay.

But it is so easy, I think, when we’re dating, to spin out on those types of things. And then for us, a couple of weeks later, we had the commitment conversation, and it was really clear by then that it was time to have it. And then we had all the big conversations, actually really early, which is obviously how we got married. But it was really powerful to have that open conversation early. And I’m sharing it with all of you because I want you to see that’s how we start to get the kind of relationships we really want, which is the emotionally available, open person who can just hang with you or up-level you.

Michael was actually always an up-leveler. I would tell him something, and then he would bring it to the next degree. I’d be like, I think that we should get married. And he’d say, well, I think we should move in first. He would challenge me, for sure, which is what I wanted in a partner. And I will say, the funny thing is, and you might see this too sometimes Andi, where strong women want a partner who will up-level them, but then they get freaked out because all of a sudden, they’re now challenging and pushing them down the path.

ANDI FORNESS

That’s one of the biggest things I like about the online dating and Bumble process, is that it can be manageable chunks because it’s just like the story of a person who’s never had any money and wins a lottery. What happens to them? They can’t handle it, right? So usually, their life is just destroyed. It’s kind of the same thing, unfortunately, when everyone has these dreams and these visions, and they do these boards about this person that they want, but they’ve never even come close to anybody like that. Right? You’ve got to start taking that apart and breaking it into manageable chunks, just like the person with the lottery would have to go to a class on managing money, and how to have boundaries and whatever, because it is too much coming at once. You wouldn’t even recognize it.

NICOLE

Yes, I feel like that is so true because you are ready for that person when you’re ready. I look at Michael and us meeting, at the time that both of us were actually ready for each other, as neither of us was ready before.

ANDI FORNESS

Right. In terms of when you know you’re right. You have these level-up moments within the dating and then in the relationship where you’re, ‘Okay, I said I wanted this, right?’ And now it’s here – and there is a little bit of growth in there.

NICOLE

Well, I’m curious. We’re here talking about dating. But the other piece that occurred to me as we were talking, you were saying how you heal in the relationship, and I really kept that in mind, especially the first few months when we were together because old things would come up for me all the time and you can’t really work through those things alone. And I feel like you told me that so many times. Would you expand on that a little bit? Like, how do you start to interrupt those patterns once you get into the relationship? Because that is its own journey. Once you’re in the relationship, there’s a whole personal growth section.

ANDI FORNESS

Absolutely. I have a personal story that’s actually happening right now. Do you guys want to hear it?

NICOLE

Yeah, of course.

ANDI FORNESS

One of the things that’s a constant struggle or story, when I’m in conversation with somebody or I attract people close to me that don’t want to know about me, they maybe want to know some day-to-day things, but they don’t want to know about me. And especially as I’m starting to get older. I’m about to be 54, and I really kind of think there’s some loss in there of the person I was when I was 20 and 30. I used to be really adventurous, and I’m really not that person anymore, and I think I’m starting to want to show that side of me or bring it up or something. It’s quite interesting. Anyway, something came up on Saturday, I was with my partner, and we were having dinner, and I don’t know how it was, but I’d gone to Mexico when I was 18 years old because I wanted to learn Spanish. And I went and I did it. I went down there for two months during the summer. I lived in this community house. I went to a language school. I figured it all out. 

I started to tell this to Greg, and I didn’t get any response from him, so I was, ‘huh?’ In my head I was okay, you’re wanting some sort of validation from it, maybe you should just give yourself that validation. I went back into the room and, you know, I really have this adventurous and brave side of me that showed up when I went to, it was such an awkward thing. Greg goes, okay. But then I was still mad because he didn’t keep asking me questions about it… like nothing! He was just, you know? But I didn’t want to mess up the evening, so I thought, ‘I’m going to handle this tomorrow’. We moved on and watched a soccer game and that kind of stuff. 

The next day I brought it up. I said, hey, I want to talk to you about something. He knew something had gone on because he’s like, Is something going on? I’m like I said, something is, but I don’t want to talk about it now. Can we pivot it till tomorrow? So then when I talked to him about it, I said this is something that I was noticing. That’s how you do it, you notice, right? And you stop and you talk about it. That’s the most important part – I talked about it, but I didn’t come from the place of ‘you did this’. That never works. I really learned, like this was speaking from my experience of what happened. And then I said, do you have any thoughts or comments on it? And he said, I do, and this could be really true. I haven’t really fully thought about it yet, but apparently, he’s like, you were really vague and I couldn’t tell if you actually wanted to talk about this time in Mexico. You really kind of like held back and I thought that you were trying to avoid the topic or give me any details, so I chose not to ask you anything about it. 

That right there gave me something to think about, like how me, the people-pleaser, the person without opinions, doesn’t want to be too much, doesn’t want to know how I am showing up? That makes me give off the vibe that I don’t want anybody to ask me things. But then it confirms the story in my head that nobody wants to know anything about me. I don’t have all of the answers, but it really is about being able to notice, have a conversation of what’s internally going on with you, not what they’re doing, and see if they’ve got any vibe on it. And that to me is the recipe. There’s something in me that I need to evolve and I’m not sure at this point what it is, but there’s something about my communication where I’m not being seen, because I’m not letting it. It’s probably to confirm that story that nobody sees me. Then I get mad and pouty, or whatever.

NICOLE

Right? I love that it’s such a good story, such a good example. Thank you for sharing.

ANDI FORNESS

It’s happening in real life.

NICOLE

Yeah, totally. Real-time. Well, I think about that all the time with relationships because you get to this place where you still have to own your own worthiness and value. I would have stuff come up from my beta marriage and share it with Michael, and it would scare me to share those things with him because I’m like, is he going to think I’m not ready or I’m too fresh from this, or whatever. Is he going to change his mind? Even though he said all these things and wants to be with me, is he suddenly going to change his mind now? Because I’m telling him a story that is too raw and it’s too much for him and he’s going to decide, I’m out. Right. 

That stuff would come up for me, and I would just be like, okay, that’s the worthiness journey. You wanted a partner where you can be emotionally available and you have to be available, whatever the result is of that or not. Right. And then he is so great. He would just listen and nod and move forward. Right. But it’s an interesting practice, that worthiness practice. I think again about those two months leading into Michael and I moving into a committed relationship. And then everything since then has been even more around being vulnerable and sharing and saying what my dreams were or what I wanted. Are you game for the things that I want? Do you want those things? It’s such an interesting evolution because I love how you say relationships are that container for development if you really allow that. I feel like for myself, this marriage has really allowed me to do that for the first time, on a deeper level. And it’s been really powerful.

ANDI FORNESS

One of my friends was in a long-distance relationship for a while and then crossed the coasts and they moved in together. And I remember her saying, ‘Well, now I have a witness to my shittiness’. And I thought that was really strong. A lot of times now I actually have a witness for when I’m not being my best or whatever. I can’t keep it all controlled. I thought that was really kind of interesting.

NICOLE

Well, I feel this way too, because your partner is your closest person. They see everything. They know so much that other people don’t see and know, because even though our relationship is obviously still evolving, and much more easeful with Michael than I ever was at the beginning, and I’ve opened up a lot more. But it’s like because the trust has grown, and I’ve felt more and more comfortable with him. And then the relationship has changed and it’s interesting, but then he does obviously get the other side, which is the not-as-nice side or the not-as-patient side. When you’re first dating, you’re so much better about that. Totally get to know each other and you’re like, the snappiness can come out, or the other things start to come out, and you do get to evolve.

ANDI FORNESS

I grew up in this place where everything had to be, I don’t want to say perfect, but really presentable. Like I said, I think my mom was just like this quintessential 50s woman or grew up under where everything in the house was perfect. I like to have a nice house, but I have a dog that sheds a lot so when Greg wants to come over and connect, I’m all freaking out about the dog hair and all this kind of stuff, and it’s become this block. I’m not saying that he needs to come into dog hair all the time, but I don’t have to put on a show when I’m talking about self-worth. I don’t have to have it perfect in order to have connection, right? And that has been something that I’ve really been able to work on in this relationship. I don’t have to have it perfect. I don’t have to have a meal ready or snacks, he likes to come over all the time, and I’m just like, it’s not perfect. I don’t have a snack for you. I don’t have your coconut water that you like. And he’s like, that’s okay, I’m coming to see you. I’m not coming for the appetizers, right? Because I’ve blocked it for years. He’d be like, ‘Why can’t I just come over?’ And it’s been really huge for me to let him come over with the dog hair. I’m like, anyway, come on in.  It’s really like, I have to let myself hear that he wants to see me.

NICOLE

Totally. And it’s amazing. I feel like there’s so many pieces around that worth and evolution around all of that. Like Michael loves cleaning, and he does it all the time, and he actually tries to get me to stop doing it because he would rather have me do like computer things, which are things that are hard for him, and that are very easy for me. 

That’s a big thing for me to be able to receive him, like helping all the time, because I don’t want it to build into resentment or a whole thing. And that’s like, old stuff for me. But there is no resentment for him. He’s like, ‘Fix my computer and I will do the dishes’, and it’s fine.  I have to constantly be like, it’s okay. It’s okay. We could just go on forever about relationships because I always think of it as the most tender place for me in terms of my self-worth journey, because I feel in terms of work and that place, I’ve had a journey for sure, and self-worth there. And I have to constantly watch it, but especially in relationships because it is your home. For me, it’s always been the deepest thing that I wanted and felt like I struggled with. So when I wanted something so badly, it was hard for me to really be okay, this is actually a self-worth thing because I was giving away my power just to have something that I really wanted, rather than saying, oh, no, I can be powerful and have the thing that I want. But sometimes Michael and I joke because we both obviously have had a past and we’re like, ‘Isn’t it nice to be in a relationship where you feel really loved and secure?’ and we’re both like, ‘It’s so nice.’ We haven’t either of us really felt that before in a deep way you know, and I really credit you, Andi, for really moving me along the pathway and helping me to get that and anchor it down. It’s so awesome.

Well, it’s such an honor to have you on. We have rapid fire questions, so I’d still love to do those with you. Are you ready?

ANDI FORNESS

Yeah.

NICOLE

All right. Okay. What was the last thing you watched on TV?

ANDI FORNESS

Oh, my God. I’m watching Succession, season 4, episode 6, and I’m dragging it out.

NICOLE

You’re not desperate to get to the end?

ANDI FORNESS

No, because I’ll be really sad. I’m super yogi person. But, man, I love that messed up Roman Roy. He has the funniest things to say. It’s just his one liners. I’m going to really miss him. I wish he and I were friends.

NICOLE

Awesome. Well, I’ve only watched a little bit of it, but I’ve heard amazing things about that last season. Okay, what is on your nightstand?

ANDI FORNESS

Oh, gosh. Okay. All my books are in the other room. I’m actually reading a really good book, but I’ve got my night guard because I clench my teeth. I have a mask because I’m light sensitive if I’m taking a nap. I’ve got some cherry’ish lotion, and I’ve got some lip balm. I think it’s pomegranate. And then I have some really nice, fun eye cream, that I got at a farmers’ market.

NICOLE

Beautiful. Awesome. So fun. Okay, and then when was the last time you tried something new, and what was it?

ANDI FORNESS

When was the last time I tried something new and what was it? Trying to think if I was doing something skateboarding. Well, my son’s home for the summer, and there are skateboards all over my living room. I tried to do an Ollie, and it was terrible.

NICOLE

It’s hard, right?

ANDI FORNESS

It’s super hard.  And I’m also trying to do math in a different way. That was actually last night. The skateboarding was earlier this week. But there’s this guy on Instagram who teaches how to do subtraction without borrowing. I don’t even know what he’s doing, so I’m trying to learn how to do math in a different way because I never really got math. Math has always been a real struggle for me, and he teaches these ways that seem counterintuitive. I don’t know, they seem easier. So I’m trying.

NICOLE

That’s funny and interesting. I haven’t studied math in a long time.

ANDI FORNESS

It’s pretty fun. The thing is really how you could do it? Besides the old-fashioned way of borrowing or even adding fractions of mixed numbers, he has this way. Anyway, I’m going to say that over the skateboarding. The skateboarding is mostly like tricks inside.

NICOLE

I like that. That’s fun. Okay, last one. What are your top three most used emojis on your phone?

ANDI FORNESS

It’ll definitely be shaka. The shaka where you grow, like roots. And I’ve been doing this one, the heart. So it’s shaka, heart, and then definitely some sort of crying or lol, because that’s always happening. I do the crying, lol. Like this one combo. I do the heart, and then this one is always a big one for me.

NICOLE

A standard, yeah. Well, Andi, it was such a joy to have you on. I feel like I talk about you all the time in life, or to my clients. It’s so fun to get to share you and your wisdom on the podcast, and I’ve learned so much from you. It’s just super great to have you here, where you can share what you do, with everybody.

ANDI FORNESS

Thank you so much. It’s been awesome. It really has. And I hope that people listen and feel like taking a chance and trying to rethink. Try not to listen to the haters. There’s just this whole negative vibe on online dating, and it can actually be something quite amazing for you if you put the right lens on it.

NICOLE

Yes. Awesome. I love those inspirational words. For those of you out there who are dating, we’ll link in the show notes, ways to reach Andi if you want a little help. We’ll put that in there for you. And Andi, thank you so much for being part of my life and coming onto the show. I’m so grateful.