Today on the School of Self-Worth, I’m sitting down with the remarkable Christine Chang, a celebrity photographer, author and now filmmaker, as she celebrates her debut short film, Making Space.
In this conversation, we delve more deeply into how her Asian-American upbringing impacted her sense of self and how it affected her in her relationships and dating.
Throughout our conversation, she pointed to a pattern many high-achieving women are familiar with — the belief that love has to be earned. Christine shares how this showed up in her own life by dating unavailable people and how she broke the pattern honest, raw conversations with her parents.
We explore what emotional availability actually looks like in practice, and why being gentle with yourself matters so much. She also digs into why receiving help is an essential part of healthy relationships.
“I always think, you know, like this is for you. And we did it. We’re here.”
– Christine Chang
“That’s why we’re so successful in certain areas, is because we overperform, because we feel like certain things are never enough.”
– Christine Chang
“You might know certain things, right, of dating – I should go for this, or I shouldn’t. I know he’s not good for me, but why do I keep sticking around? Once you have the self-love there and the clarity, because the clarity gives you the confidence to not question your choices. Like, yeah, I’m gonna leave.”
– Christine Chang
“If you can’t do it yourself, you’re never going to have a partner who does.”
– Nicole Tsong
“Anyone can show up fun and positive when things are great, but what about when things aren’t great?”
– Christine Chang
“It feels really good to have gotten to a place where I feel comfortable saying that it’s okay. Self-love, self-forgiveness. Instead of being like, ‘Oh, why did I act like that? Oh, my God, what did they think of me?”
– Christine Chang
“I want home to feel like a sanctuary where my nervous system is just relaxed. I think I get enough stimulation from the outside world. Life is already hard enough. I want home to feel just peaceful and like I can be me.”
– Christine Chang
TRANSCRIPT
EP 141
NICOLE TSONG
Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong. I am so excited for you all to meet today’s remarkable guest, Christine Chang. She spent two decades as a celebrity photographer, developing a keen eye for capturing people during authentic moments. Her fascination with intimacy, identity, and relational awareness expanded her career into writing, podcasting, branding, and now film. She is the author of ‘Show Up: Finding Love for Independent Women’, and most recently, she directed her debut short film ‘Making Space’, which is currently screening at film festivals throughout the United States. We had a remarkable conversation about self-worth and relationships. You do not want to miss this episode.
And if you are an Asian American woman who wants to stop being the invisible backbone and start showing up with authority in your leadership at work, DM me @authorityNicoleTsong on Instagram because I’ve got something over there for you.
Okay friends, let’s dive into today’s episode. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an aesthetically astounding life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and a work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insights about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.
NICOLE TSONG
Christine, welcome to the School of Self-Worth. I’m so thrilled you’re here joining us today.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Thank you. I’m so excited to be chatting with you about fun things.
NICOLE TSONG
So many fun things. I feel like you are up to just like all these really incredible big things. So first, congratulations on the release of your movie.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Thank you.
NICOLE TSONG
How does that feel?
CHRISTINE CHANG
It feels great. I’m really proud of myself. My inner child, I think about 8-year-old me. Yesterday, we premiered at the TCL theaters in Hollywood, and that was a dream of mine when I was a kid. So I always think, you know, like this is for you. And we did it. We’re here.
NICOLE TSONG
That’s so awesome. Yeah. Well, let’s just start first. Tell us a little bit more about the film. And then, you know, what I always love to hear is a little bit about the journey to this next project and how, you know, you talk a lot about how it’s like a-I feel like there’s a lot of self-worth pieces in there. So let’s just first hear about the film. If you could share with everyone what it’s about.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. My film’s titled ‘Making Space: A Goodbye Love Story’. And that’s exactly what it is. It’s a goodbye love story about a woman; she’s in a situationship, and she’s learning self-worth and to speak up regarding her needs and what she wants. Sometimes, if anyone’s ever been there-that was me when I was younger, when I was dating, before I was ready to meet my person, before I met my husband. And it was rough when you’re in it, and it’s funny when you come out. You can see it so clearly. But it’s growing pains, you know.
But self-worth is something I love to talk about because especially for high-performing women, I think usually there’s a little bit of that work to do because that’s why we’re so successful in certain areas: it’s because we overperform, because we feel like certain things are never enough. So for my film, I talk specifically about how it can creep into our romantic lives and how we show up in dating.
NICOLE TSONG
Well, what inspired you then for this specific topic? Because I’m assuming it’s not completely autobiographical, but there are a lot of components of your own journey that are in the story.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Yes. Well, for starters, I love talking about love and relationships whenever I’m with girlfriends. It seems to be a big topic, and I think a lot of it is based on my own personal growth journey. I’ll say I was in it for a good six years, figuring out my boundaries, you know, what I wanted, getting clear on what I wanted, and what the purpose of a relationship was for me. And it was such a big pain point for me that I knew others had struggled similarly when I began to open up and talk to other women, and I wanted to give other women permission to talk about it and be vulnerable. Because for me, I had a tough time acknowledging that it was something I wasn’t naturally good at, while in other parts of my life I was pretty confident-like in my career and things like that. I had friends, I had hobbies, I came from a good family. So I was wondering, well, what’s going on here? You know, why is this sliver of life so challenging for me? And why do I take things so personally where I feel like I’m not good enough if I’m not chosen? Because I don’t feel that really in other areas of my life. And I like doing personal growth, so I did the deep dive. And of course, it goes back to childhood stuff. So I just love opening that conversation for other women to have if they are wanting to go there and talk about it.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah, I mean, I really relate to this because I know we’ve just met, and I’ve done many episodes on the podcast about dating and my own journey with that as well. Like, I went through a divorce a few years ago, and it was very much about seeing where I had given up my own worth and value to that relationship and like, being chosen. And it’s like, why do we do that to ourselves? And I always think that gets such an interesting place to be, like, wow, like, where do we learn that? Where does that come from? And so I’m curious for you, like, if you’re open to sharing, like, a few of those pieces, because I think it’s really relevant, and I think it helps everybody. It helped me whenever I would look around and people would talk about it. And it was sort of interesting because it’s so deeply personal when it comes to dating. Because it’s like the thing where you’re just like, well, this is supposed to be the thing that I get to have is just like, have the relationship and have the wedding and have all the things. Like, you’re sold that line when you’re young, and then you’re older, and you’re kind of like, well, I don’t think I’m, like, that hard to get along with. Like, why is this so difficult for me? Or like, why is dating so hard? Or why will no one stick with me? Like, those kinds of questions used to always come up for me when I was dating. And then I really had to work through all of that. I was going through my divorce of like, this isn’t actually about me, and what do I have to learn about myself? So I’d love to hear from you, like, what were some of those pieces you started to learn? And I’m also going to ask you a whole bunch of questions, like, both what you learned, but also too, I wondered if there were pieces of being Asian American that also played into that, too.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. Growing up, I was applauded when I achieved something. My parents value education a lot, being traditionally Chinese. And that was their ticket to come over to the States; it was their education. So they valued that a lot. My mom was a pro tennis player. I mean, Dragon Lady Mom, excellence. That’s when I got the applause. So I always felt like I needed to perform and earn things. And while that made me good at gymnastics and get good grades and things like that, it poured over into my romantic life, thinking that I needed to earn and perform. I couldn’t. It didn’t feel natural just to be me and be loved for being me without the achievements or being really interesting. So I was definitely overperforming. And basically, I wasn’t being the real me when I showed up on dates or in relationships.
And I think people pick up on that when there is a lack of self-worth. I’ve gone on dates with people too, where it was flipped around, but we know how that feels, you know. And it just happened for such a long time where I realized something needs to change here because something’s not working. What are my patterns? Because I thought I had to earn, I would naturally be attracted to or go after men who weren’t completely available because that felt familiar to me.
My parents were really busy with work, and there were some aspects of neglect there-not intentionally from them. But yeah, I felt like I needed to be like, hey, you know, I’m over here. Choose me. And I did that enough times to the point where you get tired of your own stuff, that I began to heal and choose differently. So I would think, I would say that’s one of my main pain points of self-worth and why I dated the way I did for so many years was thinking that I had to earn love.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah. I mean, I think what you’re saying has so many profound elements. I think in general, in that journey, they are very similar to mine as well. Where you like, well, I always got rewarded for doing things a certain way. And always like, yeah, on the outward sense, people would be like, oh, you’re so successful. But then not feeling like that internal. For me, it was like I was like, I never internally felt successful.
So then when it came to dating, it was really hard to feel like anybody would choose me. Yeah. And like you, I would also choose people who were a little bit unavailable-not quite there-because it’s like, oh, well, having to strive in the relationship felt really normal to me. Versus being like, oh, it’s just like, okay to be accepted fully for who I am as I am.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Yes, yes. And that feels so nice to have that now. I didn’t realize how unfamiliar it felt. And I think the way that it felt when I was younger was boring, you know? Like, this is it. This doesn’t feel what I thought romance was supposed to feel like-calm, safe, you know? Because I’m used to a lot of stimulation. And like you said, we tend to like to be in that climb, right? There’s a certain satisfaction there, too, when I think of career things or if you’re, like, trying to reach a goal with, like, learning to snowboard or something like that. We like being in that space, so just sitting and relaxing.
And I remember when I was ready for a serious relationship-like, truly ready. I said it for many years, but the way I was choosing and dating, I wasn’t. But when I really was, I got clear. I’m like, I want home to feel like a sanctuary where my nervous system is just relaxed. I think I get enough stimulation from the outside world. Life is already hard enough. I want home to feel just peaceful and like I can be me. That was my top priority. I just feel-I want to feel like I can be me and loved for me.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah. That’s so beautiful. And so what would you say then? You know, I think that a lot of times people are like, okay, like, what’s the tactical? Because a lot of the times this piece is really hard to, like, at least identify with for yourself. You’re like, wow, I was dating from this place of lacking self-worth, and I had to really watch myself because I used to always, when I would date, be like, oh, do you think I’m cute? Are you attracted to me? Like, those are all ways I gave it away, like, my power constantly. And then when I started dating my husband, I had to really just be like, Nicole, you’re not going to say those things. You’re just going to assume because he is here that those things are true. And then sometimes when I would talk to my husband about it, he’d be like, well, yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t want to be here with you, you know? And we would have those conversations. But I’m curious for you, like, how did you start to notice, like, your own patterns and actually start to address them when you were dating people?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. Well, in the frustration of dating enough unavailable men, I just felt like crap, basically. I mean, I would just be in tears, you know, with the same pattern, same guy-either fresh out of a relationship or they need healing. That was another pattern I fell into for a while. Oh, I could fix him. But just knowing, taking that self-accountability-and my mom’s always been good at that, at self-awareness.
And I think I get that from her-of what am I doing here? I’m the common denominator here. What am I doing here, and why am I doing it? So I read books. I read a lot of books, and I did therapy, I did conferences, personal growth conferences. And I will say the most effective for me was getting other people involved because they really mirror back to you who you currently are and who you’re being. And especially in dating. You know, I understand that sometimes there are times that we want to be alone and heal in our cocoon. But really, I learned the most about myself when I was out there dating and learning. And so developing that self-love was a big component-was not beating myself up over making mistakes or when I was learning because that’s what life is.
And the way I learned to talk to myself was the way that I was parented. So pretty tough. And I know how it made me feel as a kid, and it didn’t make me feel good-like judged, criticized. And so when I talk to myself now, it’s a lot more gentle and it’s a lot more empathetic. I had some friends that were just great about that, and I’m like, gosh, I feel really good when I talk to them, you know? Like, can I talk to myself like that and also give that back to other people? I lost my train of thought.
NICOLE TSONG
That’s normal. Well, you were talking about how you start to pay attention to how you’re talking to yourself to address how you start to date differently and attract people who come in it for different reasons too, right?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Yes. And the healing component is a big part of it. I mean, the easier things are the self-affirmations, which I will say did work for me. When my husband, one of the first times he came over, I had these sticky notes hidden in my medicine cabinet all over that said, “I’m good enough, I’m good enough.” And he’s like, okay, Miss “I’m good enough.” So that’s a really easy thing to get started. But I will say the most effective way was having conversations with my parents. A lot of the stuff, as I said, stemmed from childhood. And there was stuff with my mom and stuff with my dad which I wasn’t aware of.
I’ve always been a daddy’s girl, so I wasn’t aware that I had stuff with him. And what helped that was doing a personal growth course called-I don’t know if they call themselves personal growth; it’s called Landmark Education-and it really helped me with my communication and with my mom because she was so tough growing up. I was always distant from her, and through doing that program, I got clarity that I needed to have a conversation with her. And so I called her up and I said, which was really awkward for me, I said, “Hey Mom, do you know that I love you?” And she’s like, “What?” I said, “Do you know that I love you?” And she’s like, “No, I don’t know that. I don’t know that all the time, you know, like from your sister, yes, but from you, you know, not all the time. I feel like there’s something in you that either you’ve resented or have had against me.” And from there, we were able to kind of open things up- a lot of unsaid things.
And that was really good. That helped a lot. And really, if you can get through this with your parents or sibling-whoever that person might be for you-I found for the rest of my relationships, it was so easy once I was able to do that one. And then for my dad, what came up in therapy was I didn’t realize my parents’ divorce had bothered me a lot more than I thought it had. And he-I mean, he’s so patient and he gets me. You know, we can communicate almost without speaking. And I really loved that.
But I didn’t realize that I had stuffed down 12-year-old me emotions from when they had gotten divorced. And for him, he never really took accountability for his part in that. And I just wanted him to know, and I didn’t realize how important it was just to self-express, just so that he would know. And I didn’t need anything from him; I just wanted him to know. So I wrote him a letter and I said, “Hey Dad, you know, this doesn’t change in any way about how I feel about you. I just want to acknowledge because it’s come up for me recently of how painful the divorce was when I was a kid where I felt like you were being selfish, you know? You didn’t think of Mom. You didn’t think of your family. You didn’t think of your kids.”
And it really hurt my feelings. And I’ve processed the work, and like I said, you know, it doesn’t change how I feel about you, but I just want you to know. And then he-I don’t think he responded to my email, but I didn’t need him to. I just remember feeling relieved when I sent it. And then the next time I saw him-I live in LA, they’re in the Bay Area-and I walked into his office, and I think at that point I had forgotten I had sent it too. And then I just saw he looked really different. His shoulders were a little, you know, slumped down, and he couldn’t look at me. And he said, I don’t know why I’m so emotional right now. I’m so sorry. And then in that moment, I realized the impact that I can have – how important it was for me to communicate my feelings and how others impact me. That was a really big piece in dating: letting people know. Not always saying, It’s okay, it’s okay.
Like, actually, sometimes I’m not okay. Sometimes I’m not okay – and it’s okay to tell people that. And it’s still a challenge for me because you have to be really vulnerable to do that.
And with my husband, stuff has come up recently too, where I’m like, Am I okay? Am I? And sometimes things seem subtle – it’s not a big deal. I was taught to power through it, but I’m like, you know what, if I don’t address this now, it’s going to be like death‑by‑a‑thousand‑cuts thing.
So anyway, having those conversations with my parents really helped me on my healing journey, and then helped me as I got more clarity on what I wanted, what I was looking for, how I wanted to feel, and certain core values and qualities. For example, integrity – that made me date a lot faster. And the self‑love. Because you might know certain things in dating, like, Oh, I should go for this, or I know he’s not good for me, but why do I keep sticking around?
Once you have the self‑love and the clarity – because the clarity gives you the confidence to not question your choices – you’re like, Yeah, I’m gonna leave. No, that’s a sign. He definitely doesn’t have integrity. The words and actions aren’t matching.
So I learned to date a lot faster after I got that clarity and did the healing work.
NICOLE TSONG
Well, what you’re saying and what you shared about your conversations with your parents reminds me so much of when my clients want to date. We work on that, especially in my mastermind. And I talk to them a lot about emotional availability. When you want an emotionally available partner, it has to start with you. And if you can’t do it yourself, you’re never going to have a partner who does that.
And it can be hard. Especially when you grow up Asian American or have parents who don’t do that. My parents did not demonstrate or teach me emotional availability for lots of different reasons. And then I had to really figure that out. It is a skill and it takes practice, and it’s really hard when you’re doing it at the beginning.
Even to this day, I also struggle with it sometimes. I’m annoyed with my husband or something’s going on, and I have to really address what’s happening for me emotionally and then be open about it so we can have an actual discussion – versus me just lashing out or being angry or annoyed and fussing at the surface‑level thing, like you didn’t clean up, or we just traveled to Taiwan and you didn’t bring this thing for the baby. That kind of stuff can really be covering up what’s underneath.
So I thought what you shared was a great demonstration. You doing it with your parents is probably what opened you up to be able to do it in partnership.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Yes. And like you said, it’s definitely a muscle and a skill set, and it takes practice. It’s not like, Okay, I did this, I had the talk with my parents, and now the rest of life is going to be great, because new things come up. Like you said – you have a young baby and you’re traveling, and new things kick up. And really not forgetting about yourself, being in tune with your own needs, and not building resentment.
Like you said, even if it’s a little annoying – what is under that? Usually it’s something repeated that’s happened that we’re not addressing. I’m still learning. The work never stops. He and I just celebrated 10 years together, and I’ve grown so much in the last 10 years. For both of us. We put this pressure on ourselves, like, Oh, we should know how to parent. We should know how to be married.
It does not come with a handbook. It’s both our first times doing this. And I think it’s okay to not know. I’m learning. Everyone’s just trying their best and learning.
NICOLE TSONG
Well, how did this come into play for you in terms of the movie? How did you decide this was the topic? Was it because you love the topic? And what did you want to convey – what did you want people to really get and learn from what the person is going through in the movie, and have that reflect into their own lives?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. The movie is a lesson from my book. It’s titled Show Up: Finding Love for Independent Women. It’s available on Amazon. I originally wrote the book to help women who were in the dating space gain clarity, self‑worth, and confidence, because I knew how frustrating it was when I was there. At the end of each chapter, there are simple questions I ask to help you gain clarity.
The film was born from a lesson on self‑worth. It’s a short 15‑minute film, but it’s the lesson of getting clear on what you want, communicating that to someone, and sticking with it through action.
For a long time, it’s frustrating when you know something, but your actions don’t match what you know. Like, I know he’s not good for me. Why am I sticking around? Why am I still going to the party with him? And now when I hang out with friends who are in that space – usually younger – I’m like, Why are you still dating him? You just said you saw him dating someone else and it’s messy.
Life’s messy. It’s rarely a clean hero’s‑journey arc. I wanted to show that in the film – it’s messy. You might know something, but it’s a toggling back and forth until you learn and finally get to that place of, You know what, I’m going to make this decision to choose me.
But even when you know you’re making the right decision, the emotions that come with it – it’s not easy. You might still be sad and disappointed, and that’s okay. That’s part of life. When you really like someone, you’re putting it all on the table – you’re going to get crushed. And if you don’t care, I see some high‑performing women swing the other way: I don’t care.
And I’m like, you’re never going to build anything with depth if you don’t let yourself be vulnerable like that.
It’s okay. You’re upset because you really liked this guy and hoped it would work out – and it didn’t. And that’s required when you’re dating: to put yourself out there.
NICOLE TSONG
I always think about that too. I was definitely that person who tried to protect myself after my first high‑school heartbreak. I was like, I don’t ever want to feel that bad again. So I never really wanted to open up to people. And then opening myself up and going through a divorce, I was like, Okay, that is not what I signed up for either.
And at the same time, going through that is what allowed me to have the depth of safety and security with my husband now. It feels easy, it feels safe. I don’t worry about our relationship. I know I can tell him anything and it’s going to be okay. I had never felt that before. I don’t think I understood it before having it. Now I’m like, Okay, this is possible.
But I didn’t used to think that. I always felt like it was going to feel a little on the edge, a little challenging, a little I don’t know. And I’m not saying we don’t work on our relationship – we definitely do – but it’s more this feeling of, You’re my person, I’m yours, and we’re going to figure it out no matter what.
When your nervous system gets to the place where you can accept safety and security – it’s interesting. It’s very normalized in culture to have dramatic relationships and dramatic dating. It makes for good TV and social media. When I was dating after divorce, all my friends were like, Tell me more stories. And I’m like, it’s really not that fun. Dramatic dating is not that fun.
But when you finally have that peaceful place, it feels so different and it’s really gratifying.
CHRISTINE CHANG
It is. It’s totally different. There’s a single headspace – and being single is fun too – but it’s just different. It’s a different headspace when you’re in it with someone. Like you said, things aren’t perfect, but it’s the willingness from both parties to work on things together. You’re living life with someone, considering someone else, and making that shift.
For anyone who’s been single for a long time and can’t seem to shift into accepting somebody – the acceptance piece is huge. We’re not perfect. No one’s easy to be with long‑term. I think annoyance is the cost of an intimate relationship. You’re going to get annoyed. We cannot escape that.
But once it clicks and you see it – like you said – you’re like, Oh, it’s here. And it happens really fast. You’re like, Oh, there you are. That’s how I describe it. When I met my husband, it wasn’t raging butterflies. It was, I’m curious about you, and you feel like home – in a good, healthy way. I want to get to know this guy more. It felt calm and grounded.
For other guys I used to chase – maybe for a fling in Bali or something short‑term – sure, choose the roller‑coaster guy who whips you around. But I wanted to get married. I wanted a long‑term relationship. At that time I wasn’t sure if we wanted kids, but I was looking for qualities like, Would I want to raise kids with this guy?
My dad always said, When you’re ready for a long‑term relationship, you’re going to choose differently. When I was younger, I thought, That sounds so boring. And of course, he was right. You look for different things long‑term.
My favorite thing about my husband? Patience. He’s grounded, kind, reliable. And if you’re a person who associates safety and reliability with boring – I’ve never heard a woman say, I really want an unreliable man. We don’t say it, but sometimes we choose the unpredictable person. But that’s not a good quality for someone to build a life with.
NICOLE TSONG
I’m totally with you. Safe and reliable is not sold to you when you’re younger as the quality you should want. You’re like, I want the butterflies, the chemistry. And you can have all of that – and also have safety, reliability, and someone you can count on.
If they’re your person – if you’re in the hospital, can you count on them? Those are qualities to think about.
When I was giving birth to my son last summer, my husband was such a rock for me. We were going in for a C‑section, and they were asking me about some drugs. We had talked everything through in advance, and he said, Wait, you said you wanted to be really present for this. Do you want that? And I was so glad he was advocating for me, because it went over my head – I was getting so much information from the doctors. I was like, Oh yeah, whatever, that’s fine. And he said, No, you actually don’t want that. And I was like, You’re right. Thank you.
I was so grateful to have someone grounded who listens. Nobody puts that on their dating profile – You’re going to make sure I don’t take the drugs I don’t want to take at the hospital. But you want that person who is there in that moment.
CHRISTINE CHANG
1,000%. I usually remind my friends who are dating: anyone can show up fun and positive when things are great. What about when things aren’t great? Parents dying, hitting rock bottom, physically giving birth and you can’t get up – how are they going to show up?
It would be so painful for me if I needed help and my partner wasn’t willing to help me. The neglect would be too painful. I’ve experienced that before – wanting someone to show up for me.
And letting someone show up for me – that’s a big one. Letting people help you. If you’re a high performer and independent, you want to do everything yourself. I’ve been disappointed by people, or I think I can do it better and faster.
I remember in my late 20s, I had girlfriends over after a potluck, and they were helping me clean up. I was so uncomfortable letting them clean my house. I said, You guys, stop, stop. Just go home, I’ll take care of it. And one of them said, Will you relax and let us help you?
And in that moment, it clicked: I have a problem with this. I don’t let people help me, so I don’t let people love me.
With guys, they would offer to do things and I’d say, No, no, no. They genuinely wanted to drive far to see me. And I think that was a self‑worth thing too. I didn’t want to inconvenience people. My mom always said that growing up: Don’t inconvenience people.
Relationships are inconvenient sometimes. I actually think the best relationships – and I mean this in the best way – the best friendships are useless. They’re the 4 a.m. friends who will show up for you. They don’t care what you do for work. My best friends could care less what I do for work, and I know if I need something at 4 a.m., they’d be there. And it’s inconvenient.
I think now we try to maximize everything – Does this work for me? We’ve lost the I’ll pick you up at the airport from LAX.
And my husband’s so good at that. Sometimes it’s not practical. I think, I’ll just take an Uber back. And sometimes an Uber makes sense, but we don’t always have to be so practical.
NICOLE TSONG
Well, I would love to switch gears a little bit around the movie, because this is not your background. Your background is in photography. So what had you want to make such a dramatic shift in your work? I don’t know if it was a creative impulse or what it was, because you probably had to learn a whole bunch of new skill sets to do this. Could you talk about that transition? It’s fascinating when people make a big switch like that. How did that even start for you, and what was that process and learning like?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. So with photography, about seven to eight years in, I already knew I didn’t want to do this forever. I began as a wedding photographer, which was… I’m naturally drawn to seeing connection and love, so I loved it. I got to travel the world and tell people’s love stories. But when something’s not aligned with me anymore, it’s very loud. I feel it. I’m like, Okay, there’s something here that wants to experience, expand, or grow. But I didn’t know exactly what that looked like.
So I continued with photography, and it started to feel less inspiring and more like a job – which everything does at some point. And this was a very, very long process. What actually helped me shift was the pandemic. Sometimes things are blessings in disguise. When all events were canceled, I said, Okay, I think this is my opportunity now. Since I can’t shoot any weddings or events, where else can I grow? What’s the next version of me?
With film – I’ve always had a writer in me. I blogged for over 20 years and shared my work along with my heart. It was like my online journal. And funny enough, that’s why people hired me. I always say pretty pictures are a dime a dozen – it’s who you are, especially as an artist. People are drawn to that. So I think the people who hired me really liked that.
With writing, I always wanted to make a film, to make movies when I was a kid. But as an adult, I was afraid to say it because there’s a chance of failure. It’s a skill set I don’t have. I didn’t go to film school. The photography background helps a bit, but I realized I was afraid to say it.
Then one day, I was like, I’m going to put this on my list of goals. I’ve always wanted to make movies. So I’m going to make my first short film. That’s my one big thing. So I wrote the script, and with support from friends, got it done.
I realized what kicked up for me was nerves. For the first time, I wasn’t confident. With photography, I felt like I could photograph a wedding with my eyes closed. But with this – it was new. And I’m writing it, so it’s another way of being seen. I noticed the emotions coming up when I let other people read it for the first time.
I sent it to my two friends who are actors – they’re the leads in the film. I said, Hey, I wrote this script and kept you in mind. Would you be willing to do this short film? And I’m like, Oh my God, I’m nervous. I hadn’t felt that in a long time.
The first step is getting your work out into the world. You do it, and then you share it. Rick Rubin has a great quote: You’re successful the moment you share your work with the world. It’s not the accolade. It’s none of that. It’s just putting yourself out there. And I agree with that so much.
Lucky for me, my friends said they were willing to do it. They were phenomenal. They’ve both been acting for 20 years, so that helped me a lot because directing actors is new to me. And feelings of incompetence came up – What am I doing? Who am I to think I can do this? To say I’m a director, I’m a filmmaker?
But there was an underlying belief in myself: I can do this. I credit my mom for that – raising us to feel confident and capable. I might make mistakes – and I probably will, because this is my first short film. It’s going to be a learning curve. But this is the price to pay. This is what I have to do to make my dreams come true. Get the first one done. I’ll learn. And they’ll get better.
I’m realistic with expectations too. If it’s my first one, all I have to do is try my best. That’s what my mom always said: Just try your best. And from there, you might make mistakes, you’ll learn, and you’ll know for next time.
The learning curve – there was a ton. There are so many moving parts with a movie. Luckily, I have friends who guided me. But I also learn best by jumping in and doing. There were things I learned on the floor, on set, or in the editing room – noticing, Oh, I should have done that. We should have gotten that shot.
Some mistakes cost money – like hiring visual effects to change the time on a clock because I didn’t take the batteries out. That was a $500 mistake. But I’ll know for next time.
Again, it’s that self‑talk – not beating myself up. I’m learning, and it’s okay. And I’m proud of myself for making this leap – my first step toward making my dreams come true. Seeing it done – it’s not perfect. When I look at it, I’m like, Okay, I’d do this differently. But I’m happy. The story’s there. I feel it.
And now, with audience feedback from screenings, other people feel it. That, to me, is the goal accomplished. People understand what I was trying to do. My crew, my team, and now the audience – they can feel it. That was my goal.
And last night, premiering at the Beverly Hills Film Festival – it made me so happy. It might not be the biggest festival in the world. It’s not an Oscar. But I know I’m doing the things. I’m here on Hollywood Boulevard. I wanted to do this since I was a kid – and I’m here. Eventually we’ll see where it goes. I’m going to make more films. It’s a passion of mine. It lights me up. And I didn’t want to ignore it, because I would have regretted not pursuing it.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah, that’s such a great perspective. I feel like sometimes we get these calls to do things, and they feel so big and scary – like making a film – but you also know the cost of not doing it, which is what it sounds like.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Yes. I think a part of me would have been really sad if I never pursued it. And as I’m getting older, I don’t want to get too comfortable. I always want to grow – and it gets harder. At least for me, as I’ve gotten older, you can get comfortable. I always want to be learning, curious, and living to my potential.
With filmmaking, there are so many moving pieces. I thrive when I’m learning. I hit a plateau with photography, so it was time. I’ve always been free‑spirited. Something in me was loud – calling me to do it.
A lot of people want encouragement or permission because it’s scary. Give it to yourself. Do it for the kid you, or the future you. My mom always said, Do it for yourself. When it comes to your career and work – the money, all of that – it’s for you. You’ll feel so good that you did it for you. Spending your own money – it’s different than spending someone else’s. She’s right. There’s satisfaction in that.
I’ve learned that if anyone’s going to do it – it’s your life. If you want to be happy, that’s your job. Even being married – I’ve fallen into the trap of blaming: You’re not doing this. Putting things onto my husband that aren’t his job. I’m like, Wait – is this him or me?
If you’ve ever thought of changing partners – sometimes there are fundamental reasons. But sometimes it’s like, Is this a me thing? If I switch partners, would I still have the same dissatisfaction? Is it within myself or really him?
Most times, it comes back to me. This is my life. My responsibility. I want to be happy. I want to thrive. I know what it feels like to be depressed and not feel great about myself. And I love myself too much to let myself stay in something I’m not happy in.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah, that’s so powerful – to love yourself that much. That’s always the journey, right? To be like, I am so valuable and so worthy and so loved that I’m going to do the thing that feels hard and scary because that’s the direction I need to go.
I’m curious – when you were in really hard moments with the film, how did you get yourself back to that place over and over again?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Gosh. When it’s hard – a lot of emotions kicked up that were not familiar to me, all at once. Anxiety. Normally I’m very controlled and grounded. The anxiety manifested physically. I don’t act out or yell – but my stomach didn’t feel good. I lost a lot of weight. I didn’t sleep well. That’s unlike me. I got nervous. I wanted to throw up at certain parts.
And I kept telling myself: This discomfort is what’s required. Get curious – what’s coming up here? It’s okay if you’re nervous. It’s your first time. Approaching it with curiosity instead of judgment.
I can be judgy naturally, and I’ve had to build the muscle of staying curious – for others and for myself. Being aware enough not to push it onto other people.
My husband was so supportive through the whole process. I’m very grateful. And the cast and crew – I’m particular about who I surround myself with. Kindness is very important to me. You spend so much time together – if you can choose, choose people who make you feel good and energized, not drained.
There will be times in life where we don’t have that choice. But if I can choose – it’s my health and well‑being. Are these people supportive? Can I pour my heart out? Can I say, I don’t feel good, I’m anxious, and just be in that space? Or do I feel like I have to hold everything together perfectly?
Do I have to look confident and like I have it together? Or can having it together also look like being honest and saying, You know what, guys, I’m really nervous right now and I don’t know what to say. That’s okay. And then you give other people permission to be like that too.
That’s what I love about you – when we hopped on the podcast, I was like, Okay, great. You don’t have to be perfect. It’s okay if the baby cries in the background. Is my mic working? Is it plugged in? Do I have makeup on? You know what – this is good enough. And it’s okay.
NICOLE TSONG
Totally. I love how honest and vulnerable you are about feeling sick, wanting to throw up. I work with women on understanding their calling and owning their authority. Sometimes when you do that, it puts you into situations where you feel exactly like you did – sick, anxious, like you want to throw up – because you’re pushing your limits.
When you push your limits, it manifests physically. And I think it’s important for women to hear that. From the outside, people might think, Christine’s got it together – she had a whole career, pivoted, made a movie, just went for it. It can look glamorous. But the reality is there’s so much that goes into reaching that point.
I appreciate you sharing that. I share that way too because it’s important for people to understand that getting to these levels requires a lot more than they realize. When you’re in it, you’re like, Oh right – this is normal. I want it to be normal. Yes – you might feel sick when pursuing a big goal. It’s scary for your body. That’s normal. Then you move through it. Then you have a new goal and feel that way again. It’s the cycle. And it’s important to understand it.
I’m grateful you shared that.
CHRISTINE CHANG
Oh, thanks. It feels really good to be at a place where I feel comfortable saying that. That it’s okay. Self‑love, self‑forgiveness – instead of, Why did I act like that? What did they think of me? Imposter syndrome – all of that.
Throughout my 20s and early 30s, that was hard for me. But now – that’s the gift of getting older. You start to care less. Seeing my parents aging – it hits you how fast life goes.
So what really matters? Does looking like a polished version of myself matter that much? With social media, it’s so boring and saturated. We show highlights, but people feel disconnected. What connects us is being real. Can we just be real for a sec? It’s okay.
And if you feel like it’s not okay – is there judgment in you? Do you judge others for not being okay or being vulnerable? There’s always something there when we’re judging someone else.
NICOLE TSONG
You reminded me of the astronauts who came back from Artemis. One of the commanders said that you risk your life to go on this huge journey around the moon – and when you’re hundreds of thousands of miles away, all you want is to get back to your family and loved ones. He said, It’s such a gift to be a human. It was so powerful.
He did this incredible journey – and that’s what he came away with. We all need that reminder. All the little stresses – no. It’s a gift to be where we’re at. We get to choose to be here, moving forward, pushing into what’s next.
CHRISTINE CHANG
It really is a gift. I love thinking: If I were on my deathbed, what would I be thinking about? Those are the things I should be prioritizing. Relationships are the main thing. That’s why I value them so much. That’s why I wrote my book. That’s why I made the film.
It’s all the relationships. All our memories. That’s what we take with us. Everything else doesn’t matter.
My husband is really good at that. He’s simple. He does the important things. Bikes to his friends’ houses. They’re in their 50s and still help each other move. I remember being shocked – Can we call movers? We’re too old for this. But that’s how you build community.
He’s taught me a lot about staying grounded and focusing on what’s important instead of going after flashy things – which are still fun. I love a gala. If someone wants to give me an award, I’ll take it. But really – connection, family.
There’s a quote I saw on Instagram that’s been the most impactful. I keep it in the back of my head:
Maybe the most evolved people are simply at home eating chicken wings with their family.
I really like that. It’s simple. You’re lucky if you have people in your life – even just one person – who’s a ride‑or‑die. It’s such a gift.
NICOLE TSONG
Yeah. That’s beautiful. I love that line. Well, what a gift to have you on and what a joy to have this conversation. I’m so grateful you shared your story. I’m so excited the movie is out. What’s the best way for people to find out more about what you’re doing?
CHRISTINE CHANG
Sure. My Instagram is C Chang and Co. And if you’re interested in the film Making Space, it also has an Instagram page titled Making Space Film. We’ll be announcing more festivals and screenings throughout the US, and we might bring it to Asia and Taiwan – it might be fun to do some stuff over there.
NICOLE TSONG
That sounds amazing. Christine, congratulations. Thank you for being here. Go see her movie, go buy her book, follow her. I’ll definitely be keeping tabs on what you’re up to. Thank you for being on The School of Self‑Worth.
Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget – if you are a high‑achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast intuitive decisions, I’ve got a 72‑second assessment for you. DM me “quiz” @nicoletsong on Instagram.
Thank you for being here and listening. We read every note we get from you about how the podcast is making a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you.
Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is The School of Self‑Worth.
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