What happens when you stop letting your work define you?
In this deeply honest conversation, Nicole sits down with her longtime client, Jenny Zhang—a leader in the oncology and biotech space—whose career once demanded nearly everything from her.
When Jenny first started working with Nicole, she was working 18 to 20 hour days, constantly navigating high-stakes decisions and the impact on patients’ lives. The pressure was relentless. There was no work-life balance. On the outside, she was successful. On the inside, she was overwhelmed, exhausted, and disconnected from herself.
Fast forward to today. Jenny didn’t have to leave her field. She didn’t “downsize” her ambition. Instead, she transformed how she showed up within it and landed her dream role. Tune in to find out how.
This conversation is a masterclass in what becomes possible when you:
If you’ve ever felt stuck in a high-achieving but unfulfilling cycle, this episode will show you another way.
Jenny Zhang moved to the US when she was a child but remains Chinese at heart. She is passionate about bridging the East and West cultures and helping others where she can.
She loves her work in the oncology field and is personally invested in being there for the people who may need the impact she brings through her professional life. She also thrives to be a supportive family, friend, and caring person.
“Now, I feel like my job doesn’t define me; I define the job I do and the value I bring to the community I’m passionate about. The nature of my job hasn’t changed, but the amount of stress and how I manage scenarios and prioritize my work have really changed.” -Jenny
“One of the biggest lessons this year was surrendering. I wanted things to happen in a certain order…but that wasn’t meant to be.” – Jenny
“We don’t realize it, but sometimes that one “no” or “hold on” can change the dynamic for everyone.” – Jenny
“It’s Jenny who defines the job that I do and the value that I bring to the community that I really am passionate about.” Jenny
“Sometimes we don’t realize it, but it’s that one no, or hold on, or wait, that actually changes the dynamic for everyone.” Jenny
“You were rewarded for doing that early work of de-stressing yourself and then really valuing yourself and understanding that your work was not your life.” Nicole Tsong
“Being comfortable where we are and, and appreciative doesn’t necessarily conflict with really truly understanding that there could be something even better that we deserve.” Jenny
“When you make those changes inside, then you start to see it happen in your life.” Nicole Tsong
“Having our group of masterminds women, and just that network where we’re so in tune with this also, is really pretty helpful.” Jenny
138 Jenny Zhang
NICOLE
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of The School of Self-Worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong. Today, I get to do one of the best things I can do on this podcast, which is to introduce you to one of my clients and share her journey with you. Today’s guest is Jenny Zhang. Now, Jenny and I go way back, and when she first started working with me, her life really revolved around her work. She literally worked 18 to 20 hours a day. She’ll share more about it in the episode with you. Now, she is in a place where she doesn’t let her life revolve around work; work revolves around her life.
She is in this new era where she truly calls the shots on her work. This is what led her to start looking for a new job in 2025, and by the end of the year, she found the perfect fit in scope, title, and compensation. Her story is honestly so powerful. I am just beaming from our conversation, so you don’t want to miss what she has to share today. Before we get going, if you are an Asian American woman who wants to be both visible and valued in 2026 so that you get a promotion and a raise, DM me @valued on Instagram @nicoletsong. I’ve got something over there for you.
Okay, now let’s get going, and I can’t wait to share our conversation with you. Welcome to the School of Self-Worth, a podcast for ambitious women who know they are worthy of an astoundingly great life. Join us weekly as we get on the right side of your intuition, redefine success, and reclaim your self-worth. I’m your host, Nicole Tsong, an award-winning journalist who left it all behind to become a bestselling author of three books and a work-life balance expert, helping ambitious women unlock their intuition and step into a life of fulfillment and radical joy. Every single week, I will bring you diverse and meaningful conversations with successful women from all walks of life who share insights about what it takes to be brave, joyful, and authentic every day. Every episode is thoughtfully designed to leave you feeling empowered with tangible tips and advice that will lead you to your next breakthrough.
NICOLE
Jenny, hello! I’m so happy to have you here with us on The School of Self-Worth.
JENNY ZHANG
Good afternoon, happy Friday!
NICOLE
Having my clients on The School of Self-Worth is truly my favorite thing to do on the podcast. Jenny is a long-term client of mine, and I’m super thrilled that you get to come on and share your story because it’s such a powerful one. Jenny was sharing with me just before we started about how she was reflecting on the journey she’s been on since we started working together. We were both reflecting back to the very beginning, and it was just a different Jenny. So, I’m wondering if you could start there-when we first met, why you decided to work with me, and what the stresses and challenges were happening in your life at that time.
JENNY ZHANG
Yeah, sure. I think we date back to 2022 at this point. It’s been a long time. I remember first reaching out to you after you came to our work event, where you talked about the concept of “above the line” and how to be happy under stress. At that time, I was going through quite a bit of personal and work challenges. It was just stress in every aspect. We started out working on a lot of the personal challenges I was experiencing in a more private setting. Then I took a break, and I think what really transformed was when I wrapped my head around it, and my friends and colleagues began to notice the difference in me before I did.
When I felt the calling to go to the retreat in Hawaii, that’s when things really started. I think that was the beginning of my mastermind journey, beyond that initial intro to the Geotrend work and the clear callings. It’s been really interesting to observe and hear from my close friends, colleagues, and family about how I’ve changed, especially in stressful or upsetting situations. I’ve always wanted to be an anchor for my friends and family, and I thought I was doing a good job until I wasn’t. Now, I think they naturally come to me and see me as a source of calm and stability. It’s been a very interesting journey.
I feel like a whole different person now after two years in the mastermind.
NICOLE
Amazing! Jenny, would you mind sharing a bit more about the kind of work you do and a little about yourself before we dive into the nitty-gritty?
JENNY ZHANG
Sure! I work in the healthcare and biotech industry. I was trained as a research scientist in oncology and have been in the oncology field for over a decade now. I work closely with oncologists to help develop new therapies for cancer patients, particularly those experiencing late-stage cancer. When I started working with Nicole, I was at the peak of high stress, with multiple programs undergoing submissions to the FDA and launching therapies for patients. My day-to-day life had a lot of underlying stress because I faced many life-and-death situations and conversations with doctors. But it’s really been about how I maintain myself as Jenny while not losing focus on why I’m doing what I’m doing.
NICOLE
If I remember correctly, when you started, you had either two or three jobs at that time, which was pretty intense. A lot of what we worked on was just getting you to sleep enough-you were working late into the night. I was like, “Jenny, we really need to do something about this.” What was your perspective when we started working together, especially regarding caring for your health when work was so all-consuming?
JENNY ZHANG
I was reflecting on how far I’ve come. I realized I’ve changed from letting work define who Jenny is. When I started working with you, I had three jobs and was probably working 18 to 20 hours a day. I was fortunate to be offered those opportunities because my leadership trusted me, but I was also coming from a challenging personal time straight into this high-stress, high-demand work life. There was no work-life balance-only complete work-life integration. When I started, my objective was to figure out how to stay calm amidst all the deliverables and demands.
Over time, we worked on many different goals over the last three years. Now, I feel like my job doesn’t define me; I define the job I do and the value I bring to the community I’m passionate about. The nature of my job hasn’t changed, but the amount of stress and how I manage scenarios and prioritize my work has really changed. This allows me to do better and bring better value to the patients I serve, the doctors I work with, and the companies.
NICOLE
It’s been amazing to watch you transition to a place where you can make time for yourself and do things you enjoy. One pivotal moment was when you came to my retreat in Hawaii. Do you remember what your big insights were after that trip?
JENNY ZHANG
Yes! “Rainbow” became a theme for me. In the group now, I’m known as “Rainbow Jenny,” which is awesome. Hawaii has always held a spiritual connection for me. I would go every year, especially to the Big Island, because it felt secluded, allowing me to connect with nature and the local spirits. When you reached out to say we were doing a retreat on the Big Island, I couldn’t say no. It just felt right, even though I could only participate for part of the trip due to international business travel.
I was really glad I made the trip because I had realizations on how I could clear my mind, even with a huge event coming up right after I left Hawaii. I was able to let that go through the morning exercises we did. Being fully immersed with those nine other lovely women, even though I didn’t know any of them before, helped me focus on who I am and what really matters to me outside of work. When I landed in Europe for my business trip, it felt so clear. I was able to disconnect from the stress I had experienced before the trip to Hawaii and focus on what I needed to do. That immediate impact was transformative in handling my high-stress work life.
NICOLE
You just said something really important. When you’re pulled in five directions, everyone faces that, no matter what kind of job you have. But you learned not to let yourself get pulled in those directions. The first year in the mastermind was likely focused on learning to prioritize effectively. Many people dilute their value by trying to address everything at once. What did people notice when you changed the way you worked?
JENNY ZHANG
I remember one of my close colleagues who had worked with me for six years through two different jobs. One day, we were in a meeting asked by our collaborating partner and leadership to deliver multiple things. There was negative feedback about team performance. I said, “It’s okay, let’s take this one at a time. What is the most urgent deliverable we need to address?” I reassured my colleagues that it was okay to say no to requests that weren’t urgent, especially when no patient’s life was on the line.
A lot of my colleagues started to hear me ask, “Does this impact the patient? If yes, we want to address it first.” That reflection ties back to why I’m in this business. At the end of the day, my passion is helping someone live a day longer. Not every business can say that, and I’m proud to be in one that can. This transformation changed how I guide my team and address urgent topics. If something impacts someone’s life, we will address it. If not, we can sit down and have a conversation to understand why it requires our attention. I felt much more comfortable saying no. It was a learning process; I didn’t need to say yes to everything to be liked. They appreciated me more when I delivered beyond their initial asks because I understood their intentions.
NICOLE
That’s so important. Many of us come from a people-pleasing background, but you learned that saying no can actually strengthen relationships because it establishes clear boundaries. You became someone they can trust to prioritize effectively instead of someone who scatters themselves everywhere and feels stressed out.
JENNY ZHANG
Exactly.
NICOLE
We need to be clear, calm, and grounded while addressing the most important issues first.
JENNY ZHANG
Yes. I also noticed that in high-stress situations, whether at work or in personal relationships, it’s easy to escalate stress levels. Having one calm person in the system can help everyone refocus on what really matters. Sometimes, we don’t realize it, but that one “no” or “hold on” can change the dynamic for everyone.
NICOLE
That’s amazing, Jenny. You’re articulating this so well. It’s fun to hear you talk about it this way.
JENNY ZHANG
It’s really powerful.
NICOLE
So, what happened next? That was the first year of the mastermind, where you had this huge transformation in how you grounded yourself and set boundaries at work. In the second year, you had another retreat and realized you needed to make a few changes.
JENNY ZHANG
Yes, the second retreat I attended was on Whidbey Island. Unfortunately, I could only be there for three days because I was coming back from a trip and missed the first day. That was the first time our group did a much more elevated version of integration in Geotrans than we had ever done before. To my surprise, during that week, I kept hearing the same theme: my intuition was telling me I needed to move, which was not part of my plans. I really enjoyed my waterfront condo in Seattle.
I was skeptical at first because moving is costly, and I would have to justify to my job why I needed to move without a raise or new position. But we kept hearing it, and I think you convinced me to follow that intuition and see what happens. So, I did. Last year, I contemplated leaving my job due to philosophical differences between my values and the company’s priorities. My leadership was supportive, encouraging me to explore my potential within the company and develop in other areas. I also started talking to companies outside our industry to see what was out there. But we all know 2025 was not a good economic year.
It was a tough job market with many layoffs in biotech and pharma. I was hopeful my skills would be appreciated, but I also felt the need to move. I thought, “Okay, I could be out of a job, I’m spending money on moving.” I had good reasons for moving-both personal and for a better network of industry collaborators-but financially, it didn’t seem wise. I sat on this decision for three months after the retreat until I finally resolved to do it. I packed my things and moved to California in the Bay Area, continuing to reach out to companies and recruiters about different opportunities.
I ended up talking to five or six different companies throughout the year, refining my story along the way. Through those interviews, I achieved a realization-how Jenny defines work rather than how work has defined Jenny over the last decade. I reflected on why I would be a good candidate and what value I could bring to the job I was pursuing. It also clarified my decision about leaving my previous company. It wasn’t easy because I liked the people I worked with, but I had to consider whether I was realizing my value there or if I would have a better chance in this new role. So, here I am, in my first week of 2026, starting my new job on day five.
NICOLE
So exciting! I was thrilled to hear.
JENNY ZHANG
It’s amazing!
NICOLE
There are so many powerful pieces in what you just said. When you realized your value isn’t defined by how others value you, you positioned yourself to get the job you wanted. Please share a bit more about what happened with your title and compensation because those details really matter. Often, when we feel misaligned with our current company and start looking elsewhere, we can fall into a trap of devaluing ourselves, settling for jobs that don’t truly reflect our worth.
JENNY ZHANG
Exactly! There were many components to this. At the end of the day, understanding my story and who I am was crucial. In my previous job, I was valued as an employee by my leadership, even though the disease area I was working in-gynecologic cancer-had been deprioritized. They showed their appreciation for my skills by moving me to a high-priority program in lung cancer. I learned a lot and loved the team, which made leaving harder. However, my passion lies with the gynecologic cancer community I had worked with for the last five years, where many accomplishments and struggles defined my role in the company and community.
I wanted to return to that space. I felt there was more I could do for that community that I hadn’t done. Many opportunities came my way, and I interviewed with various companies, both through my network and actively seeking opportunities. I spent hours in interviews but often felt something wasn’t quite right. Some offered great titles or compensation but didn’t align with my interests. I had to convince myself whether I could switch from oncology to something outside of it. There were always doubts.
Then, towards the end of last year, one of my old colleagues reached out about a role in gynecologic cancer, looking for a specific skill set that matched mine. I didn’t even ask about the title or compensation. It just felt right. I pursued that opportunity, and we discussed the level they were posting and the compensation based on what I was already making. Fortunately, they were able to ask for exceptions to both the level and title, ensuring I wouldn’t take a lower title. I received a higher base salary and sign-on bonuses that compensated for what I was leaving behind. It was everything I had asked for and more.
I also get to return to a space I’m passionate about. The process was smooth compared to other conversations that felt glitchy. I had the luxury of sitting on the decision: should I pursue this new opportunity that my intuition was drawn to? Was it appropriate to leave a team and leadership I loved? Now we know what the choice is, and we’ll see what the future brings.
NICOLE
I loved so many aspects of this because, as someone who worked with you through this period, I saw the worry and fear, especially regarding compensation. You were making a big move and worried it might set you back. Moving to California, which has a higher cost of living than Seattle, added to that stress.
JENNY ZHANG
Right.
NICOLE
Yet, you did it! Not only that, but you also received compensation beyond what you were aiming for, including bonuses and other incentives. I’m celebrating you because I was on maternity leave for part of this journey, and I was eager to hear what happened with you. You followed your intuition to make the move and find a new job, exhibiting patience to avoid jumping at opportunities that weren’t the right fit. You valued yourself, knowing the right opportunity existed out there if you remained patient. And it came! The ROI on that was huge for you.
I want everyone listening to understand that this is what it takes. Sometimes we want things to happen immediately or in a specific order. You were rewarded for doing the early work of de-stressing and valuing yourself. You understood that your work was not your life, which brought you to a place where you could secure a job that compensates you well, gives you the title you wanted, and is a perfect fit in the field you’re passionate about. It’s so cool to hear it from you!
JENNY ZHANG
I remember one of your earlier episodes about surrendering, and we’ve talked about this. One of the biggest lessons this year was surrendering. I wanted things to happen in a certain order-find a job, then move. It should have been done in the first quarter of 2025 after I accepted the move. But that wasn’t meant to be. I tried to look for a job before moving, but it wasn’t going anywhere. It created stress for me and my personal relationships.
I was frustrated, thinking it shouldn’t be this hard. Then I surrendered. I decided to move because it felt right, and it was also the right next step for my personal relationships. I had to have faith that the right job would come at the right time. That was a big piece of the process, and listening to past podcasts and group conversations helped me too.
NICOLE
The order wasn’t what you wanted, but it was the order that had to happen. You had to move before the job could come. Sometimes we resist that order, but now you can start 2026 focusing on your new place, your relationship, and your job. This year is a big opportunity to live into all the things you’ve been working towards.
JENNY ZHANG
Yes, for sure! There were many lessons about being clear on what I really wanted. When we first started working together, I thought I was clear on my goals back in 2023, but I wasn’t. I was allowing work and accomplishments to define what I wanted. That shift to understanding what Jenny truly wants is crucial.
Unless I can make movements in that direction, I need to be patient and persistent in pursuing what I believe is right. That clarity saved me from going sideways and helped me follow the right direction.
NICOLE
You’re also speaking about something essential. Many times, we feel we should be grateful. We have good jobs, are paid well, and do work we like, but we settle for “good enough.” In our world, we call that Plan B. It’s not the plan you’re supposed to be in-Plan A is what you truly want. Plan B seems good, but deep down, you know it’s not Plan A. That retreat in Whidbey was where you began to see your Plan A.
JENNY ZHANG
Yes, that was the beginning. Many of us are privileged and taught to be grateful for what we have. While that’s true, being comfortable doesn’t conflict with understanding that we deserve something even better. Sometimes, we are taught to be humble to the point where we feel we should be grateful for what we have. I was receiving raises and promotions without even asking, and I was grateful for that.
The retreat helped me realize that just because I was living a privileged life doesn’t mean I was realizing who Jenny truly is. That realization over the last year has brought me to a place where I can define my path. Even if I have a privileged life, it doesn’t mean I don’t deserve something I’m truly passionate about. I want to put in 100% effort and still feel fulfilled. Some of the professors and experts I work with love their jobs so much that they don’t feel like they’ve worked a day in their lives. I realized I want that too. I want to achieve something more meaningful, where my work contributes to my legacy.
NICOLE
That’s so well said! What you’re speaking to is fulfilling your potential and being all that Jenny is here to be. You’re not just here to make money and work. Sometimes we think we should be humble and grateful, but we also need to ask ourselves who we are meant to be and what’s possible if we step into that.
People often worry that if they don’t pursue exactly what they thought they should, they are giving up or not being ambitious. But actually, you’re being more ambitious when you step into who you truly are. That’s the kind of ambition that changes the world. It can be scary and nerve-wracking, but you’ve shown resilience in your journey. I’ve loved watching you every step of the way because I knew you would get there. You just had to be patient and follow the steps. And here you are!
JENNY ZHANG
We did it! It feels like a miracle. There were times during my last job when we underwent team reorganization, and opportunities for promotion came up. I remember having a conversation with a colleague I’ve always seen as a mentor. We had the chance to put our names in for an upgrade. She asked if I was going to do it, and I said no. She was surprised and asked why I wouldn’t want an upgrade. I told her that while it was true, I didn’t think that was what I wanted to do or how I wanted to leave a legacy with the company.
So when my manager asked if I wanted to put my name in for that open role, I said no. I think he was quite shocked.
NICOLE
That’s shocking! It looks better to pursue the upgrade, but I loved that you were defining work instead of letting work define you. How powerful is that? How does work feel for you now, doing it from this perspective instead of letting work define you?
JENNY ZHANG
I feel it on many levels. For example, in my first week on the job, I haven’t fully onboarded yet, but I’ve had a colleague reach out for my opinion on something work-related. The Jenny who defines work was able to get on the phone, speak with my colleague, and understand where we’re coming from as a company. I felt confident giving my opinion to guide the team.
Had work defined Jenny, I would have focused solely on the details and my scope without seeing the bigger picture. Now, I spend a lot of time thinking about the long term and the bigger picture. I can do that with more ease and confidence, even without all the details required to make certain decisions. This has been a huge shift for me.
NICOLE
That’s awesome, Jenny! I love everything about this. I’m celebrating you because these shifts feel so internal. You’ve made internal changes that resulted in external shifts, and that’s how it works. When you make those changes inside, you start to see them in your life. You’re a beautiful example of doing that work, being persistent, resilient, and committed to yourself. We have a whole year of the mastermind together to continue this journey, and it’s just so awesome.
I’m incredibly proud of you, and I love sharing your story with everyone. You’ve put in so much work and done a beautiful job. I’m celebrating you in all the different ways. Thank you, Jenny, for being on the podcast and sharing your story with us. Keep an eye on Jenny; she’s up to big things in the world!
JENNY ZHANG
Thank you! It’s been an honor and a pleasure to share part of my journey. It will continue. We’ll see where 2026’s masterminds will take us, but I feel I’ve gone through so many levels of elevation through this process. There were times when I wondered, “Nicole, what am I doing? What am I achieving?” It didn’t feel clear. Sometimes the changes are so many that I don’t realize them myself. I’ve been lucky to have friends and family who call it out and help me reflect. Having our group of mastermind women and that supportive network is incredibly helpful.
NICOLE
Jenny, thank you so much for being on, and I’ll see you soon!
Thank you so much for tuning into today’s episode. Before you go, don’t forget, if you are a high-achieving woman who wants to uncover your biggest blind spots preventing fast intuitive decisions, I have a 72-second assessment for you. DM me “quiz” on @nicoleTsong on Instagram. Thank you for being here and for listening. We read every note we receive about how the podcast makes a difference in your life. Please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, I’m Nicole Tsong, and this is the School of Self-Worth.
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